How do human relationships impact supplier management in the medical device field? Today you’ll hear from Taylor Brown, a Medical Device Guru and Manager of Onboarding and Implementation for Greenlight Guru, and Maxime Rochon, the Director of Quality Assurance and Clinical Affairs for Puzzle Medical.
In today’s conversation, you’ll hear about why building supplier relationships is so important and some of the best practices for those relationships. Listen to the episode to hear how Taylor and Maxime are thinking about whether and how human relationships make things easier, tips for new companies establishing beginning relationships, and social capital in relation to suppliers.
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Some of the highlights of this episode include:
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Recommendations for employing the human side of supply and management
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Whether not knowing the people involved make transactions easier
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Tips and tricks for establishing human relationships in business
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Best practices tips for companies beginning relationships at the beginning
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If it’s helpful to know the relationship between a company you have a relationship with and another department who also has a relationship with them
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Suppliers and social capital
Links:
Memorable quotes from this episode:
“I saw on Instagram or Buzzfeed or something that you can hire a Karen to be your customer service representative.” – Taylor Brown
“In general, I would say you need people who can be both friendly and stuff like that, but keep their professionalism at the same time.” – Maxime Rochon
“If I’m looking for a supplier, what is that supplier going to do for me specifically?” – Taylor Brown
“We were taking the product the final mile for this manufacturing company who spent hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars – that person in the van better be the right person in the van. You just can’t pick any distribution company off the street. –Taylor Brown.
Transcript:
Etienne Nichols: Hey everyone. Welcome back to the Global Medical Device Podcast. Today I get to speak with the director of quality and Clinical affairs at Puzzle Medical, Maxime Rochon, and also Taylor Brown, a medical device guru here at Greenlight Guru. And the topic we want to talk about today is the human side of supplier management.
So. But before we get into today's topic, how are you guys doing? How are you doing, Max?
Maxime Rochon: Fine. Very good here. The. You know, we're based in Montreal, so. So, during this time of the year, there's like, we can see the snow from the window, the. The same height almost.
So, it's good for the…we're in the skiing season. It's very good.
Etienne Nichols: Oh, man. I've got a skiing. I've got a snowboarding session coming up in a week or two. I think that I'm going to Denver, so I am. I am so excited to be right there with you.
Maybe I need to come to Montreal, though.
Maxime Rochon: Yeah, for sure.
Etienne Nichols: Taylor, how are you doing today?
Taylor Brown: I am good. I've never done any snow sports, so you guys can leave me out. I'll go to the ski lodge, and I'll drink hot chocolate.
Maxime Rochon: Yeah, the. The aftermath is the. The greatest part.
Taylor Brown: Yeah, I love it.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah. Well, as long as you're there, it's totally fine. You don't actually have to be on the surface.
Taylor Brown: Yeah, absolutely.
Etienne Nichols: So just for the audience awareness, just so how, you know, we know each other.
So, Maxime works at Puzzle Medical, which actually uses Greenlight Guru. So, we work at Greenlight Guru.
Taylor Brown: And.
Etienne Nichols: And so, the reason we got on this topic was we were just thinking about the relationships that we have with customers and vendors. And per our 2022 State of the Industry Medical Device report, one of the benchmark studies that we did where we interviewed over 500 customers or 500 medical device professionals, different companies, one of the things that we saw was supplier management was one of the big-ticket items, one of the difficulties.
And now that we're working on the next industry state of report for 2023, it's another big-ticket item. Supplier management is always one of the top of the list, one of the most difficult things to really get your arms around since the pandemic.
But when I see some of our relationships with. With vendors or suppliers, you guys just come to mind. So, I don't know. I Just want to maybe open the topic and see what you guys.
Any recommendations or how you actually employ that human side or is it a competitive advantage in your.
In your company? What do you guys think?
Taylor Brown: I can kick us off here. I think from our perspective, and I'm on the greenlight Guru side, obviously, so I am Max's supplier. Max can show up and audit us at any minute, and he'd be welcome, obviously, but I'm representing the EQMS side of things. So, when Max's company, Puzzle, got a contract written up with us and came on board, I was one of the first faces that welcomed the team and certainly Max, to the Greenlight Guru family.
And I think just, you know, whatever word you want, family or friendships, or just remembering that it's a person on the other side, like, Max has his own interests. He is excited for the eQMs.
I hope. I hope you were Max. You can. You can correct.
Maxime Rochon: Yeah, I still am after 2 years.
Taylor Brown: But just knowing that Max has his own objectives, his own goals in mind, and just showing him that I am also a person and I want him to be successful as well.
Maxime Rochon: Yeah, exactly. And, you know, like, when you.
You remember that there are people on both sides, it's easier to create bonds. And these bonds will lead with you, to lead you to, like, be part of the other company and feel like their challenges are also yours.
So, it's just beneficial for both sides to move faster when you. When it's not just a business transaction, but also you. You create bond. And even after two years, we can say for.
For us at least, but friendship, like you said. And it should be the same. You know, this is the case for the eQMS supplier, Greenlight Guru. But like, it. It should be the same for all the suppliers because even, let's say for our hardware or prototyping some components, if you. You have created a good relationship with them, they will just be more inclined to help you to innovate faster and, you know, do iteration and stuff like that. They. They will feel like an extension of your company.
Etienne Nichols: It's almost as if you need a person who is outgoing in that position in whether it's purchasing or supplier management. Because when I. I look back on my time as a manufacturing engineer, and I remember one time we had.
We were short on a certain amount of components, and I went to Sharon Carter, I always brought chocolate. And I said, Sharon, is there any way we could get some components in here tomorrow? She's like, are you kidding me? So does she call up her friend who do her a favor and maybe we get something going there.
So obviously you have to have those quality agreements in place and so forth and so on. But just to reiterate what Taylor said, it's people that you work with at the end of the day.
So, another question, though. So that's some of the pros, and maybe there are additional pros. What about the cons of knowing the people? Because I can't help but flip the.
Flip the script a little bit. And I think to myself, okay, but what if I don't know them? Could I be a little bit more, you know, if things don't work out, you know, I can cut the.
Cut the cord and all these other things in different ways. Are there any things that you ever see as, like, well, sometimes I wish I didn't know a person. I don't want to put you in a weird spot, but.
Or vice versa or is that even true? I don't know. Just throwing it out there.
Taylor Brown: I don't know. Did I saw. I don't know, on Instagram or BuzzFeed or something that you can hire a Karen to, like, be your customer service representative?
Like, the Karens of the world will not have any jobs at that point, you know, so that's an aside, though. We can cover that. On another topic, I'm trying to think of any town sites, but I mean, maybe from, like, my own productivity, like, if I see Max's name come through, I'm like, oh, well, I mean, I wonder what Max is up to. So maybe that hurts. But Max, that still helps you. So, I don't know. What do you think?
Maxime Rochon: Yeah, maybe. I would say so far, the only downside was because we had so much fun in the After Dark party at the quality Summit last year. Like, the day after.
It was kind of hard, but, yeah, for us, I don't see any downside. But in general, in general, I would say, like, you need people who can be both, like, friendly and stuff like that, but keep their profit. Professionalism also at the same time, because, you know, at the end of the day, we still need to achieve goals and stuff like that, but it's not that hard to merge these two behaviors together, I think.
Etienne Nichols: Go ahead.
Taylor Brown: All right. No, I think. I think, though, it's more difficult. Like, I'm thinking of suppliers that I worked with in my past. You know, I was at a distribution center, and I was on the quality auditing side.
So, we went to a lot of suppliers, and I filled out many a supplier assessment form in my life.
I'm thinking about, like, Uline and Office Max. Like, I don't have relationships with them, but at the end of the day, they were supplying me tape and boxes. So maybe there's a, a chart or a table we could create. You know, how personalized is the product versus how many personalized touch.
And that's why I love being in the software as a service business, because you get to have both. You don't have to pick.
You don't have to pick.
Etienne Nichols: That's a really good point. Yeah, go ahead, Max.
Maxime Rochon: Well, just to. To add on this, I think it's related to the frequency of exchanges you, you, you have to have with the supplier. So, let's say I'm speaking. It's like working with a teammate or someone if I'm speaking with them each day. Well, the relationship is more important than if it's just ordering table, which are still very important.
We bought a lot from you, but.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah, that makes sense. And I could see each department maybe having a different relationship with a different supplier. Like, of course, maybe your quality and regulatory professionals might have a better relationship with your EQMs versus your R& D and product development engineers may be with their SolidWorks or their CAD modeling software representatives and so forth.
So that makes a lot of sense.
So, trying to think of another question around this, though. What are some of the. What are some of the ways, in the early days, like, how did you establish that human connection with, you know, what ordinarily we would look at as simply a professional, professional relationship?
Are there any tips or tricks you can recommend?
Taylor Brown: I can start, I mean, from the greenlight guru side. And I tried to do this in my past with other suppliers as well.
But understanding, I think it just has to start with understanding the goal.
What is the priority for this person that I'm working with, for this company that I'm working with? Because when you walk in on an audit or the first call, that's probably the only thing you have in common at that point.
I know Puzzle Medical wants an eQMS.
Great. Tell me more. What are they working towards? So, I love seeing our new customers come in and I immediately go research their product and just see, how can I relate to this?
Or I'll go ST them on LinkedIn and say, oh, well, this person, you know, went to DePaul University in Indiana. That's a connection right there that I can make. So, understanding what business goals you have in common and then also digging a little deeper when you meet the person to see what else you can do to establish that connection.
Maxime Rochon: Yeah. Be being accountable for what you committed to. Also like so you know, let's say at the beginning, you know, there's the onboarding experience with Greenlight.
So, if we, we share our goal with them and then like it's like their actions are not aligned with what we want.
It's harder to create a good relationship afterward. And you know, it's something like very in French. It's subtle but. Yeah.
Sorry for everyone.
I'm. English is my second language but you're.
Etienne Nichols: Ahead of all of us, so. Yeah.
Taylor Brown: Right.
Maxime Rochon: But you know, just taking a few minutes to. To being vulnerable let's say or you know, speaking about the difficulties. Not, not always painting the something like the best scenario and also sharing personal stuff just to, to learn to know each other better.
It's always easier than to create a real bond with people.
Etienne Nichols: That's a good point. I mean just going back to the title that we kind of have self-selected the human side of supplier management. Remember person and being willing to be a person back.
I guess is kind of what you're saying, right?
Yeah.
What. What are the. Some of the things that you think Taylor did especially well, anything stand out since you guys have been working together for a few years, maybe we'll kick her off the call for a minute.
Maxime Rochon: But no, but I mean the. So, Taylor and Madison also. I need to, to give her a shout out.
Taylor Brown: Absolutely.
Maxime Rochon: But like yeah, the, the energy at the beginning that you. You shared with us, you know, it was even without words, it was very easy to feel that you wanted to help us for real and that like our challenger challenges.
Sorry were also yours.
That it was very, very easy to. To create the bond. And also, you know, every time I had question at the beginning and even still today, we, we always learn.
But like you, you're always answering with like great detailed answer that I know you, you took the time to really like read and understand and gather the information to like to.
To have the right answer.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah.
And maybe to put a little bit more context, just specific MedTech specific side of this. Taylor, I know you've done a lot of supplier quality whether it's audits or assessments.
You mentioned that as well. What are some best practice tips that you can give companies that are. Are building or maybe starting out at the very beginning those relationships maybe from a technical side.
Taylor Brown: Yeah, I think Max, you kind of said it but just being very clear about if I'm looking for a supplier, what is that supplier going to do for me? Specifically, I Can't go pick a supplier off the street and hope it works out because it's probably not going to work out at that point.
So as fun as it sounds, as painful as it sounds sitting down and just like you were designing a medical device, coming up with your requirements for that supplier, they need to have X service within Y amount of time and just being very specific on what your parameters are.
And then I mean it's like going to buy anything, shop around a little bit, see what reviews. In some cases, a company has. I know you know, working in medical device, it's a little different but you know, if you are going through a consultant service, seeing what kind of customers they've worked in the past and are those customers successful, something like that.
There's a lot of trust with supplier relationships and we may get into that more. But again, if you know what specifics you want from the supplier, being very upfront and honest with them that this is what we're trying to do, can you do it? And that's where you know, audits and assessments and all that kick in as well.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah, yeah.
Maxime Rochon: And just as, as a startup also you, you might talk with some suppliers at the beginning that will not really take you seriously or you know, they, they, they, they will think like the, the quantity you, you need to build is not enough and stuff like that, but it's part of the game and you know, you, you just have to pivot like fast and find another supplier who can build the same components or if it's of like can offer the same service.
And you, you know, at the end you, you will find one who's willing to help. Startups and innovations just don't lose too much energy on the, on the, the nose at the beginning.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah, that's a good point. And I think medical device companies don't always get that encouragement, but they need that encouragement because usually our volumes are a little bit lower depending on the type of device you're producing.
I remember going to powder coating suppliers with our, with our purchasing department. We'd evaluate them. There's like a three or four of us. We had a quality engineer, manufacturing engineer, product development, maybe supplier and we'd go in there and usually what we immediately off the bat was we say do we have any bad vibe or is it dirty?
And all that sort of thing we're trying to eliminate so that we can move on to the next one. I guess I don't know if that was right or wrong, but now we're in a, we're more in A virtual world. And maybe this is a question for you, Max.
Yeah. How do you, how do you do that evaluation when.
When we're so virtual or have. Have you had to do much of that, or do you have any thoughts or tips?
Maxime Rochon: Yeah. So you.
First of all, you can always look a little bit like Taylor said, but to feedback from other customer, which is a very good way to mitigate the risk of doing business with the wrong supplier.
And also, you can look at like past warning letters that they would have received, stuff like that. Like it's a good indicator and what we do. So, our process for supplier approval at Greenlight Puzzle.
Sorry, I'm part of. I feel like I'm.
Taylor Brown: You evaluated us. Yes.
Maxime Rochon: But first of all, we share with them a supplier information form so they can feel like the. The initial information.
And then based on the. Their risk level, we have different requirements.
So, they like not be afraid to ask question to them because at the end of the day they will be part of the people who manufacture your device and you're the one responsible for the possible adverse event or stuff like that.
So, like don't be afraid to ask questions straight at the beginning.
Etienne Nichols: That's a really good point because I think a lot of us sometimes disconnect ourselves from the end result. I mean, medical device companies, maybe it's a little bit closer. I remember I was working on a. It was a drug delivery device and occasionally our CEO would stand up and talk about the device and the impact that it will have on the end user.
But I think the further away you get from that, you forget about that. But ultimately everybody who's helping a medical device company, we're helping a physician who's helping a user.
Have you guys ever read the Checklist or seen this book? You have it? Do you read this?
Maxime Rochon: I did a few months ago.
Etienne Nichols: Oh man. I'm only a third of the way through. But I don't know if you remember the CA. So, I'm holding up the checklist Manifesto How to Get Things Right by Atul Gawande.
If I'm pronouncing his name right. And he starts off in the first problem in the first chapter talking about a young girl who, who almost drowned in the Swiss Alps. She fell into a frozen pond. They rushed her to the hospital, and he goes through everything that the.
The team of physicians of 30 plus people did, how they, they worked on her pulmonary, they had to hook her up to her heart, all these different things so that they could bring her back and all the things that had to happen.
Right. Every single one of those. I've actually been thinking about what if we made a video where, you know, you almost recreated that and here's a medical device and here are all the people who impacted that medical device suppliers.
I mean I'm kind of going off the rails here, but I feel it.
Taylor Brown: Oh, I got you. It's, it's one of those things where, you know, being a distributor at my previous job, we were, we were delivering these devices to the hospital. I talk about the last stage of the medical device journey.
Like we were loading up the van, and we would drive to different hospitals throughout,
I mean the country here. So, we would always, always iterate to our techs, our warehouse workers, the shipping team, the receiving team even. It's like these devices, yeah, they're packaged in cardboard boxes, but I mean there was just a car crash, and someone called in and we need to deliver this device right now.
And I mean all these horror stories about getting calls in the middle of the night saying hey, you have this product on hold, we need this product, let's release it.
So, supplier management, it's easy just to take for granted. Almost like, oh, we're just going to outsource that, we're just going to outsource that. It's going to be fine.
But we were taking the product the final mile for this manufacturing company who'd spent hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars.
That person in the van better be the right person in the van. You just can't pick anyone, any distribution company off the street.
So, we, we really enforced the idea of you're making a difference here. Someone's life is literally at stake getting.
Maxime Rochon: This product and it just make. Makes me think also that another good way to like create bond or make the suppliers feel part and not just feel but know that they are part of, of the project is to share the successes also so or, or to share some experience like just for example for we, we invited a few supplier to animal implants so they can just understand better and you know it's, it's motivating to see the all the device works.
You know when we, when we did our first inhuman study and it was a success, we wrote an email to them also with, with some details and just thanking them for, for what they have built because at the end of the day it helped patients and it's just not on puzzle.
It's also on the suppliers and even for like you, you know, you guys at Greenlight Guru like without QMS you, you cannot build a safe and reliable device. So, like all the suppliers have an impact on the final product.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah. And internally in our Slack we have a special Slack channel for you know, our customer successes and we all celebrate those, so we try to, we make them feel like our own.
So, it's really cool.
One question that kind of popped into my head as you were talking there, Max is so if you have a relationship with your EQMS vendor and the, and the people, it's the people-to-people relationship.
I'm curious what you think about your company and them having relationships with other vendors. See if I can verbalize this.
Do you know if you're any of the other departments have a similar relationship and if they do, is it helpful to know what those relationships are?
Because I can just imagine a time when maybe someone complains something about the E commerce they know to go to Max because Max can get something done there.
But do you know about other things and is that beneficial? I don't know what your thoughts are, if that even makes sense as a question.
Maxime Rochon: But yeah, well I'll, I will try to answer and tell, tell me if I didn't understand. But yeah. So, you know we, we were in the R D phase for, for a long time and one of our like most critical suppliers, our like pump manufacturer, I know the guys, you know they went, they went to visit them and for like a few years, I would say two or three years every week they were speaking with them.
You know like so we are there with the project, you know just doing follow ups and giving feedback on the sample we receive. And so yeah like, like you said like if, if you have a good relationship with the suppliers, it's easier to give feedback and you have more chance for the supplier to react to this feedback. So, in, in R and D I, I know the, the people here, they, they've built great relationship with a lot of suppliers, and they have like weekly calls with, with a lot of them.
Etienne Nichols: So, this isn't quite, this is going to be a little bit off topic, but you had mentioned the TQ and After Dark party so I, I don't know if you want to just talk about that for just a minute because it was really great time.
I love seeing you guys.
Just for context, True Quality was the annual conference that Greenlight Guru put first annual. I don't know that we're doing one this year. I think we're morphing it into a roadshow.
But what did you think? What was the good and the bad and the ugly about it? Besides, I'm just going to assume the ugly was the day after the after dark party, but so we could skip that.
Maxime Rochon: It wasn't that bad. But yeah, there was a lot more good than Anglia actually. There was no ugly about this event.
But yeah. So first, first of all, the location was amazing. It was my, my first time in, in California so I had the chance to try surfing the weekend before. It's, it's harder than, than it looks.
Etienne Nichols: But they still haven't done that.
Taylor Brown: Yeah, it looks really hard.
Maxime Rochon: So, the waves were too big. But yeah, you know, first of all, with all the conferences, it was a great way to, to learn a lot of things in a very short amount of time.
Also, just networking. So, there was a lot of sessions dedicated only to networking and everybody there is a professional of the industry.
So, like to grow the network in a very short amount of time. It was amazing.
And also, just to reinforce the relationship with the people you already know or you're already working with. You know, it was the first opportunity to, to meet the people at Greenlight and also met some other of our suppliers.
And also, yes, another great thing is we, we met new suppliers that we didn't know about before.
So, it, it even helped us to develop faster our product afterward.
Etienne Nichols: I totally agree. And not just, it probably feels like we're completely off, off the topic here, but I'm going to try to tie it back together and you guys help me out here.
But I. Not even just true quality, but when you go to a conference, an industry conference, if you have a plan, you actually can build those relationships which ultimately does eventually could tie into your supplier management plan.
I'm giving you two stories. So, when I was at a conference recently, it was about two months ago, I was sitting in the audience learning about different sterilization methods, specifically chlorine dioxide and versus EO and gamma.
And later I was walking around, and I ran into some people I used to work with several companies ago and I knew that they were working through their sterilization method, and I said, you guys, you guys met this other person, they're doing chlorine dioxide.
You can potentially bring it in house. There's some, some, you know, more environmentally friendly ways and just made that introduction. So being intentional and being a connector or, you know, making friends with connectors is, is really helpful and I think, I think that's something that we did really well at true quality, at least it seemed like, you know, we got all the good, good feedback there. So Matt Taylor, you got anything?
You looked like you were going to say something.
Taylor Brown: No, I'm just, I am so inspired and I'm so passionate about the idea of social capital and I, when I think of suppliers, I, I have to think of social capital like there's suppliers that I used to work with.
Again, this was in distribution. I'm, I'm a broken record. But it was a good experience because of the supplier part where we just had such a rapport with the manufacturers, we were working with that if I saw, you know, Etienne's name pop in my inbox, I knew that was hot because Etienne doesn't email me unless something else is going wrong.
So, we have that respect and we have that social capital with each other that he could ask something of me because I know that they're going to pay their invoices on time, something small like that, or bring us new business, speak well of us at a conference.
I think internally, you know, in departments too. So quality was my background, not everyone's best friend, quite honestly. So, there was a lot of social capital spent being in quality but just being able to ask for the expedited shipments because you knew that if I was asking for something it was a big deal.
And I think what you said Etsy and you're just making the connections for people, it's like, hey, did you even know this company existed?
Great, you can go use them like that.
Maybe made a device that's home to market three, six months faster because of that connection. So, you never know what effect it's going to take when you introduce someone new.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah, and I'm thinking of my question that I asked earlier foolishly about what are the cons and you know, maybe holding someone at arm's length or maybe I will speak to the companies that maybe want to hold their vendors at arm's length or maybe not be a human because then they do have that more, you know, they can be a little more commanding or authoritative or whatever they want to call it. It's kind of like the almost a manager relationship with an employee.
You don't want to hold them at arm's length for the express purpose that maybe I'll have to fire them, and I don't want to be emotionally invested or something like that.
That's, that's a ridiculous way. In a short-term approach, ultimately if you have a very close-knit relationship, even if eventually you have to part ways that, that could pay dividends in the long run.
So, it's a small network of people in the MedTech industry, at least it seems to be a small world. So, it's good to know the people that are in your industry.
Maxime Rochon: Like you said, it's paying in the long term. So sometimes you can think putting effort and time in this right now is not worth it, but the impact can be so big in the long run that it's always worth creating new relationships in the industry.
Etienne Nichols: Well, I'm going to let you get back to work. You're important as your work is very important. Max and I always appreciate you taking time out if to talk to us.
Where can people find you if they want to talk more? Or is that okay? Do you want people to reach out and find you?
Maxime Rochon: Yeah, yeah, no problem.
Taylor Brown: Social capital next. You want more social capital coming to you.
Maxime Rochon: So, I guess the, the best way to find me is on. Is on LinkedIn. So, Maxime Rochon and, and yeah, just, just taking the time to, to thank you both for the invitation. It was a.
It was fun as, as it always is with you.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah, absolutely. And Taylor, same LinkedIn, what are your thoughts?
Taylor Brown: Yep, yep, LinkedIn's good. LinkedIn's good. I think that, you know, Max and I are a good.
And Madison too. We can never forget Madison. She's the customer success manager for puzzles, so she's probably listening right now.
But we have such a good relationship and it's, it's very mutual. So, I understand that when Max has feedback, I'm taking it seriously. When I have feedback for Max's processes, he's going to take it seriously.
So happy to talk about the human.
Etienne Nichols: That's something I didn't even think about too, because you build that relationship.
Now Max has an advocate on the inside. So, you can take Taylor, she's going to go to product development, say, no, this matters. And so, yeah, that's really cool.
Taylor Brown: As, as I have on my, you know, disclaimer on every call, I know nothing about coding. If I say it's an easy idea, it's probably not, so don't listen to me.
But I will make sure that people know about it.
Maxime Rochon: Yeah, but yeah, you know, just very quickly. But in the last two years I gave some feedback, and it's already implemented in the software. So, thanks for being so reactive. Yeah.
Taylor Brown: There’s an army behind us, but yeah, that's. I mean, talk about good supplier relationships. Feedback goes both ways. Absolutely.
Etienne Nichols: Awesome. Great talking to you guys. I'll let you guys get back to it. But looking forward to next time. And if we ever have a true quality after dark, we'll definitely be there.
Maxime Rochon: I'll be there. Yeah, for sure.
Etienne Nichols: All right, bye you guys.
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