In this episode of the Global Medical Device Podcast, host Etienne Nichols talks with Mitch Robbins, founder of the Anthony Michael Group, about the evolving landscape of hiring and job seeking in the MedTech industry in 2024.
They discuss strategies for both employers and job seekers, emphasizing the importance of preparation, effective communication, and proactive networking. Mitch shares actionable tips to enhance the interview experience and improve hiring outcomes, making this episode essential listening for anyone involved in MedTech recruitment.
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Listen now:
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Have suggestions or topics you’d like to hear about? Email us at podcast@greenlight.guru.
Key Timestamps
- [00:00] - Introduction and overview of the episode
- [03:15] - Mitch Robbins on the current state of the MedTech job market
- [07:30] - Importance of candidate experience in the hiring process
- [12:45] - Preparing for job interviews: Insights and tips
- [25:10] - Effective networking strategies for job seekers
- [35:00] - Onboarding new hires: Best practices
- [45:30] - Overcoming the challenges of layoffs and finding new opportunities
- [55:00] - Final thoughts and advice from Mitch Robbins
Key Takeaways
- The current job market has shifted to favor employers, making candidate experience crucial.
- Networking and leveraging personal connections are more important than ever for job seekers.
- Proactive follow-ups and personalized communication can significantly increase your chances of landing a job.
Practical Tips for MedTech Professionals
- Prepare thoroughly for interviews by researching the company and understanding their needs.
- Utilize LinkedIn and other professional networks to connect with potential employers and peers.
- Be proactive in your job search by reaching out directly to hiring managers and using creative approaches like video introductions.
Links:
- Greenlight Guru - The game-changing solution for medical device companies looking to streamline their quality and clinical processes.
- Anthony Michael Group - Mitch Robbins' executive search firm specializing in the MedTech industry.
- Mitch Robbins on LinkedIn
- Etienne Nichols on LinkedIn
Memorable quotes:
- "The more value you demonstrate throughout the interview process, the more leverage you create for yourself." - Mitch Robbins
- "Hiring is a team sport. It takes a team to court a candidate." - Mitch Robbins
- "Always try to think above the line, like, how can I get to this person warmly?" - Mitch Robbins
Feedback:
Love this episode? Leave a review on iTunes! Have suggestions or topics you’d like to hear about? Email us at podcast@greenlight.guru.
Transcript
Mitch Robbins: So, here's a question that I really, really, truly stand by.
One of the biggest complaints from candidates is that they walk out and they feel like everything went well, but they have this kind of uncertainty of, did it go well?
Did it not? I hope it went well. Please let me know what you hear. You know, I hope next steps will happen and they don't know. Yeah. Okay. Well, I want to give you some agency over that.
And I want to give you a question that if you ask this, you pretty much have a 67% chance of establishing closure to the conversation. And it goes like this.
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Etienne Nichols: Hey everyone, welcome back to the global medical device podcast. My name is Etienne Nichols. I'm the host for today's episode. With me today is Mitch Robbins. Mitch, how are you? Doing today?
Mitch Robbins: I'm doing great. Thanks so much for having me, Etienne.
Etienne Nichols: Awesome. Glad to have you on the show. I wanted to talk to three different specific, I don't know, audiences, I guess, that people might be listening. Number one, companies that are planning to hire and companies that are, are looking to expand and grow their business in 2024.
Specifically, what they can be doing or what they should be doing. And I want to get too detailed on this yet, but I'm just going to lay out the episode a little bit for some people who are, who are listening.
The interview prep. If you're, if you're about to go in and get a job looking for that new role, what are some things you ought to be getting started doing?
And then I also want to address people who may have been laid off and you're between jobs with some things that they could be doing. But maybe if we start at the top, what are you seeing in the industry and the good, the bad and the ugly, and how companies can be improving?
Mitch Robbins: So, I would say that right here, where we are in 2024 as of present day, is definitely an employer's market. The pendulum has swung, if you would. A couple of years ago, it was a super, super candid driven market, and now employers have more choice.
Right. Hiring has slowed down a little bit in MedTech over the last 18 months or so. Hopefully, we're going to see a pretty significant pick up, you know, from the late spring through, through the rest of the year, I hope.
Um, but right now, for those that are hiring, they have more choices than they probably have in a long, long time. I've been doing this over 15 years at this point, and it's been a long time since I've seen a market like this.
But what I'm noticing is that companies almost have the blinders on with this mentality that if somebody wants to work here, they'll jump through our hoops, they'll wait for us.
And it is what it is, and what I would want to say here, like I've talked about in, on other forums, is that you have to realize that regardless of market conditions, hiring is a two-way street.
It just is. And if you aren't willing or prepared to court a candidate, the candidate will still have options and get to work where they want elsewhere. Right. And so, when it comes to preparing for the interview, as far as giving interview times or coming back to a candidate with feedback in a timely fashion, these are the things I'm talking about, is that the can experience does matter, regardless of employment or excuse me of market conditions. And I always say that you are giving a message to the marketplace no matter what.
What message do you want to give to the marketplace is, is kind of your choice based on the actions that you present within this candidate experience.
So that's the biggest piece that I would say is just really kind of think about it, the fact that it is a two-way street. Candidates are interviewing you as well.
They may need a job, but they still have choices of where they're ultimately going to work.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah.
Mitch Robbins: Does that make sense?
Etienne Nichols: Yeah, it does make sense. Even though the pendulum has swung, you still have to think that there are other companies out there, especially. The thing that I'm curious about is even though the pendulum has swung, now that we're in a pretty much a remote world, or at least to a large extent, people do have options, globally almost. And so that seems like another dynamic that companies need to be thinking about just in that realm, that they could potentially have options.
Mitch Robbins: Yeah, they have options. And they also, it's like, how do you want somebody to feel about working for you, right. If it takes two weeks to hear feedback versus two days, what's.
There's a big difference there, right? I've talked to people who interviewed for a role, and then six weeks later, they had followed up, and somebody's like, oh, I'm sorry, I forgot to get back to you.
Yeah, we put the search on hold. Well, really, you know what I mean? Things like that. And I get, you know, the bigger the organization, the more positions people are responsible for in human resource or talent acquisition, the more things that can slip through the cracks.
But there's multiple players within an interview process, not just one point of contact. And I really do believe somebody, a friend of mine, put it to me best hiring is a team sport.
Right? It's not just a one-to-one interaction. It's a team sport, and it takes a team to court a candidate, in my opinion.
Etienne Nichols: So, what are some of the specifics? And you say those blinders that people have on, aside from the, the response times, what are some other things that they could and should be doing?
Mitch Robbins: Yeah. So, whenever we take on a search, I always look at the search as two sides of a coin. Okay? On one side, you've got what we call the performance profile.
In essence, what somebody's done in their previous experience, that's going to help give the employer confidence that what they need help with this person can do. Right. So past performance to help predict future success.
Performance profile. The flip of the coin is the employer value proposition. What is so differentiating, so unique, so compelling that's going to stop somebody dead in their tracks and make it a no brainer to, at least, one, have an exploratory conversation with you, and two, why would they want to work here versus doing the same job elsewhere?
Okay. And so, I think this is the piece that gets missed a lot, especially in an employer driven market where they feel like candidates are just coming out of the woodworks.
Well, what's in it for the candidate? Are you taking time throughout the interview process to talk about, hey, if you come in and you do XYZ, here's what growth looks like for you?
Or, hey, I know that you've got options. You're probably interviewing for fairly similar roles elsewhere. Let me tell you what I think is different, why I choose to work here and what might be in store for you as well.
And really taking the time to focus on some of the pieces that are in it for the candidate versus looking at the interview process as almost like a quiz, hey, jump through our hoops, pass our test, then we'll decide we want to hire you.
Make sense?
Etienne Nichols: Yeah, yeah. No, that makes a lot of sense. The thing that I thought of when you were talking about that is last year there were a lot of layoffs, which is likely what's contributing.
I mean, obviously contributing to this different shift in the. And the pendulum like you're talking about.
Mitch Robbins: Yeah.
Etienne Nichols: But that being said, I would expect companies, nobody wants to go through that. So how can we improve our hiring process, not just to make it a better experience?
I don't mean to use the word just because that's incredibly important. Like you say, how someone feels as they get hired, it's going to likely impact their performance moving forward.
So that makes a huge difference. How also, though, can we choose these candidates and really be picky enough in such a way?
Choosy enough. I don't know the right word exactly, but that they'll be, they'll have endurance.
Mitch Robbins: Yeah. So, I think it's a couple of things. One, I think that sometimes I've seen where people just get on the phone with somebody because they have an application and they feel like they need to at least vet it out, but they can clearly see this isn't the right person.
So being tactful and professional and perhaps responding earlier than getting on a phone call and saying, hey, you know, professionally, we're not going to be moving forward with the process once the person is in the process, having a speedy process, having a situation where you've identified ahead of time.
The key stakeholders that need to be involved with the interview to make a key decision not being fly by night. They talk to me now. Who else should we have them talk to?
Oh, we need them to talk to Sally in marketing. She's not available for two more weeks, so we'll figure that out in a couple weeks, and then we'll figure out what's next from there.
Really having a process outline. Okay. These are the four players we need involved. What are their schedules look like over the next couple of weeks so that we have perhaps preset times where we can plug and play people.
If we find somebody who's qualified, being quick and decisive with feedback and getting back to the candidate, keeping them engaged throughout the process, knowing that they are perhaps interviewing elsewhere, understanding where the candidate is in the process with the other roles so that you can mirror your process.
If somebody's got to make a decision by next Friday, what are you going to do with your, your situation so that you're in contention for that decision that needs to be made on their behalf, especially if it's somebody that you want and then being really clear on your compensation.
If you're, if you can pay up to $150,000 and you're interviewing somebody who was most recently making 165,000, thinking that, oh, you're going to show them enough in this role that they're going to somehow, you know, get so excited that they're going to, you know, put the blindfolds on themselves and make that compromise.
You're fooling yourselves. And I see it way too many times, you get all the way to the end of the process. Everybody's excited. You can't put the deal together.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah.
Mitch Robbins: So those are a couple of things that come to mind that makes sense.
Etienne Nichols: That makes sense.
One of the things, and I don't mean to skip too far ahead into the, where we talk to the person interviewing themselves, you know, but I can remember at one point in my career going through the interview process, and I got hired at this company, so it's kind of weird to think about.
So, I've seen both sides, but I remember going through this interview process, and one of the people who came and interviewed me, kind of like you said this, you know, you kind of a revolving door of people coming through.
The one guy, he didn't say hardly anything. He just kind of sat there and just looked at the paper and asked me a few questions, then just stared at me and then, and then left.
And I thought, well, that, I wonder if he was just stuck in the process or whatever. Well, I come to find out later that guy's probably the most important person in the process because he is the linchpin on who will be successful in this company because you have to work directly with this guy, but he's just sick of being on an interview process. So, I don't know from both sides of this, if you have a comment or a thought on how to navigate those situations, you know, whether from the company or the interview side.
But that was an interesting experience for me and just, I don't know, just popped into my head.
Mitch Robbins: Yeah. And you're being very polite and tactful here, but I'm sure you had a sinking feeling you didn't feel very good when you saw that happen, and you were probably thinking to yourself, one, did I do something wrong?
Two, why was he even here if he didn't, you know, for that period of time, he didn't ask me anything and you weren't feeling very good. So really, again, it goes back to that impression.
What impression do you want to leave? It also goes back to interview education, too, I think. I think there's a lot of companies who put people in positions to interview who don't know how to interview.
And so, you get somebody who's looking at a resume, who's trying to, on the spot, think of what to ask. But one, they don't know why they're asking it, and two, they don't know.
Well, let me. Yeah. In essence, they don't know why they're asking that question. Ultimately, what are you hoping to get from that response is going to help you make an educated decision about this person.
And a lot of times people don't really know what to do because I think that is a huge gap, especially in middle management. I don't think that there's enough emphasis put on training around what are we looking for as a culture, as a, I mean, as a company overall, what are we looking forward from a technical skillset specifically? And, you know, it's funny, I'm not trying to go off on a tangent here, but when I ask somebody, what are your two, if not three critical priorities you're hoping this person can come in and help with right away?
In essence, what I'm trying to get at is you have pain on your plate right now. By hiring this person, you're going to help. That person's going to help supposedly alleviate that pain by way of helping get some of this stuff off your plate.
Usually what I hear in response to that direct question, and I get this almost verbatim is, we need a team player. We need somebody who's got eight years of experience doing, you know, regulatory, blah, blah, blah.
We need somebody who really is a good cultural fit. I sit there to myself, and I say, what did I not ask clearly enough to get the response that I'm looking for?
And I don't think it's that, because you saw, the question's pretty darn clear. It said a lot of times people aren't thinking that way. They're not looking at this as a solution provider who's coming into an organization that can provide solutions.
They're somehow looking at a resume and says, do they have eight years? Yeah, they do. That's good. Do they have the right titles? Yeah, they do. But they're not necessarily taking that and equating it to what does it mean from a business standpoint?
And so, again, it really, truly comes back to mindset and, like, why are we in this interview in the first place? And why are the people that we've asked to be a part of it in this interview?
Etienne Nichols: That was a really good point about the training before the people who are doing the interview. I think that's a.
I'm gonna throw one more example out there and you're gonna laugh at me. Because I was, as a manufacturing engineer, I remember my boss didn't have time to interview somebody.
She said, Etienne, someone's coming in today. I need you to. I'm like, okay. This is the first time I'd ever interviewed somebody. So, I had a lot to get done.
I had to be on the floor. So, I brought her to my desk. I'm like, listen, I have this. I'm not allowed to have this, this little mini fridge under my desk, but I do because I'm friends with the maintenance guy.
So here, I have a coke, and we're going to go walk the floor in a minute here. And I just want to introduce you to the meanest machinist that I know and see how you do, if you're cool with that.
And she's like, all right. And that's what we did. Yeah, that's probably not the right way to do things. I mean, it would put her in.
Mitch Robbins: A real-life situation. You're saying, like, say, yeah, yeah, I think that's brilliant. That's one of the biggest pieces that's missing. I don't want to cut you off. I want to talk about that.
Etienne Nichols: No, no.
Mitch Robbins: So, Etienne, I'm kind of jazzed up about this because this is. This is my jam. But we call that the test drive in essence, put in. People are going to give.
There's going to be flack about this, too, because people are going to say, you, you're asking a candidate to do too much work for free. That's not right. No, what I'm saying is, let's say you come down to the end of the process with the rate of mis-hires, almost the flip of a coin.
Go look up the studies. You'll see it. It's like 48% or so. Okay. Almost the flip of a coin. What the test drive in essence does is say, okay, we've got our interview feedback.
We've asked really good questions. We have a feeling that this is the right person. My gut is the cherry on top saying this is the right person. Now, let's put it to the test.
Can this person actually do what their resume says they can do and what they vocalize that they can do? And we put them as, in as real life of a scenario as we possibly can to see how they would ultimately perform.
That could be a case study. It could be, you know, dealing with components right on the table and ask them to put something together, whatever it may be. But the point is you.
That's what you mentioned. I brought them out to the floor. I show them what I wanted to see how they would perform. That's exactly how you validate if somebody might be the right person or not.
So, I think it's great.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah.
It really kind of begs the question to me, before and after. And it's kind of funny because I think of regulatory terms. So, you talked about validation. I immediately locked onto that one.
The next term, in my mind, is like post market surveillance. And I think of two things, or verification of effectiveness, whatever we're going to go with. So, there's that initial validation of getting that person, making sure they can do the job, going to fit, doing all those things.
After that, though, I mean, what if we were wrong? You know, what about a trial period? Have you ever heard of anything like that? And what are your thoughts on just the different methodologies companies can use for both validating and verifying after the.
After the fact?
Mitch Robbins: Yeah. So, I think a lot of that comes down to, so you've made your decision. Okay. Most companies have a 90-day ramp in one way, shape or form. Right. Some sort of onboarding period.
Most, I can't speak for all states, but a lot of states are at will. Right. And so, you've got this 90-day onboarding period that is so crucial. What happens a lot of times, though, is people hiring managers are overwhelmed to begin with.
They barely had time for the interview in the first place. The person comes on board; they're kind of relieved. They hope this person can run with it, and then they get sidetracked and leave the person to sink or swim.
Okay. And then say, oh, this person's not performing. Right. Oh, they're not doing what versus. Okay. Within the first two weeks, we've got exactly what this person's gonna do for onboarding, and we've got them set up with training where they're gonna meet these key stakeholders.
Within 30 days’ time, we're gonna actually have a sit down and go over what have we done? In 30 days’ time, we're gonna be as open as we possibly can, talking about any potential concerns on either side of the coin.
In 60 days, we're gonna do the same thing. In 90 days, we're gonna sit. That doesn't happen very. It very rarely happens. So, what happens is instead, somebody's not performing,
they drag their feet to say anything about it. Cause they don't wanna deal with the conflict. Or they're like, I really don't wanna get HR involved. There's so much paperwork.
I have to document this. I have to do this. I don't know how to handle this situation that starts to fester more and more and more. And then the person either is fed up and they leave themselves or the hire manager can't handle it, and they find out how to fire, and then they come back and say, the recruiter didn't do their job, they brought in the wrong person.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah. And all of that could maybe even go back to the. The thing that you alluded to at the beginning or spoke to, which is, do you actually know why you're hiring them?
Six months from now, they still have eight years’ experience. Six months from now, they still have this degree and so on. But we didn't really clearly know, even during the interview, what we were asking the dupe.
We are going to try to shoot for a regulatory submission for a class three orthopedic product in nine months. And so, we need you to help us get there. Not be.
Just be a team player.
Mitch Robbins: You make an awesome point as far as how clear are your objectives, right. How clear are your expectations of this person, and how do you gauge their performance? Is it a gut feeling? Oh, they should be getting more done in less time?
Is it? How objective, truly, is it? And can that person measure themselves against what has been made clear?
Etienne Nichols: Yeah. So, let's shift gears a little bit and look at it from the interviewee or the new hires perspective. What should they be thinking about going into these already knowing kind of what you said a little bit about what the companies are doing and thinking about how can a, how can interviewee set themselves up for success?
Mitch Robbins: So, are we talking about post onboarding? Are we talking about preparing for the interview?
Etienne Nichols: Let's talk preparing for the interview. Just do this chronologically, I guess.
Mitch Robbins: All right, let's do it. So, here's what I have said for years. I use the analogy of a teeter totter, okay? So, on one side, you've got the candidate. On the other side, you've got your prospective employer.
Okay? And you think of a ball rolling back and forth. On the teeter totter. Two people are bouncing up and down. The ball is rolling back and forth. The ball is representing kind of the value or the leverage.
How do you keep the ball on your side? Okay. How do you keep leverage? You keep leverage by demonstrating massive value. The more value you demonstrate throughout the process, the more value you.
Excuse me. The more value you demonstrate throughout the process, the more leverage you create for yourself. And I'll explain. So, people say, well, how do you, what do you mean?
How do you demonstrate value throughout the interview process? I break it down to a couple of things. Number one, it's based on the value of the questions that you ask.
Number two, it's based on the value of the answers to the questions. Right? And number three is more so character piece. It's more so about how enthusiastic, how prepared, how well presented are you?
Okay. And so, then I can break each one of those down. But the point is, the more value that you create, the more levers that you have to make your own decisions throughout the process.
I always tell candidates; I don't care if you don't want this job. I don't care if you go in and you're like, never in my life could I work there.
That's great. I want it to be your decision. I don't want them to come back and say, thanks, but no, thanks. Okay. And so as long as you could keep the ball on your side of that teeter totter, the more empowered you are to make your own decisions.
So how do you do this? Number one, as far as questions, you know, so often people come into these interviews and they're hoping to ask. They're hoping to get answers that they don't walk out with.
And the reason is because vanilla questions get vanilla answers. So, the more specific and pointed you can be with your questions, the more clear everybody's going to be and you're going to know much faster.
Is this something I want to learn more about or it's not? So, when somebody says, what are you looking for in this person? It's a really vanilla question that's going to get a really broad answer.
Or.
So, what would be a specific question? A specific question, again, goes back to, hey, obviously you got a ton of priorities on your plate. What are the two or three most important priorities or projects you're hoping this person can come in and work on right away?
Great. Now, if they tell you that you're backing into the answers to the test, they just told you what they need help with. Now, you reflect on your own experience, and you talk about very specific examples of where you've done something similar.
What does that do? It gives the hiring manager, whoever's in front of you, the confidence that you could do what they need help with. Right. Fast forward six months from now.
How would the department, how would this position, what would need to happen for you to have the confidence you hired the right person?
I love that question. And it could be different timeframes. It could be six months; it could be a year. But what you're doing is you're getting the person to have to stop for a minute and truly think and cast a vision for you, give you the colors of the rainbow.
They no longer can necessarily be generic because now you're asking them, say, wow, you know what? It's a great. Well, we would have had our submission done on this. We would have taken care of these outstanding CAPAs on this, whatever it may be.
Okay, great. You just got their vision and now you're going to be the solution to help catalyze them to getting towards their vision. How excited do you think that hiring manager is going to be after you heard what they want help with?
And now you explain how you're going to help them. Does that make sense?
Etienne Nichols: Yeah.
Mitch Robbins: Okay, so those are so the value of the questions, the value of the answers. So, a lot of people go wrong in two ways when it comes to answering interview questions.
Number one, they're too vague with their answer. The resume looks great. It looks like they've got all this experience, but then they give you a really vague answer that doesn't give you the confidence that what's on the resume is actually what their skill set is.
The other way they go wrong is that they are way too detailed and they talk in circles, and they give you every single detail possible. To the point where you don't know what they said.
And again, that doesn't exude. It's not going to create confidence in the person who's interviewing you. So, a lot of people have heard it as star, I use situation, solution, outcome. What was the situation you were dealing with? What was the solution that you came up with? And ultimately, as a result of that solution, what was the outcome?
For most questions that are asked, you know, behavioral based. Tell me about a time you did this. Tell me about a time you had trouble with this. You can use this.
And what it does is it creates such specificity that nobody can argue that you have the experience you say you have. Right?
Etienne Nichols: Yeah.
Mitch Robbins: So, I'll, I'll stop there because I've been talking for a while. Do you have questions on that piece?
Etienne Nichols: Yeah, no, that's, that's really good. I like the situation, solution, outcome.
That's really good. Is that tied to inspiring confidence specifically? I'm trying to remember, I was trying to take notes on some of the questions,
the three areas that you really recommend, the questions, the enthusiasm, the inspiring confidence. Am I getting that right?
Mitch Robbins: Yep. It's, yeah. So, it's the question, the value of your answers to people's questions, the value of the questions that you ask. And then, you know, your, basically, your enthusiasm, your character is the, is the other piece.
And as far as the situation, solution, outcome, I think what happens is people get thrown for a loop very quickly because they're nervous. They're not used to interviewing. Interviewing is not where you could just flip a switch and all of a sudden, you're a great interviewer.
I always say, you know, Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, you name it. They didn't just go out there and shoot the basket, shoot the ball in the championship game.
They're sitting at the free throw line 04:00 in the morning practicing their shot. You can't expect that you wake up the next day and start interviewing. You got to re, you got to practice for this.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah, well, I have a question about that. So, if that it is such a unnatural thing for a lot of people, especially in their, you know, it's like, okay, I'm going to do this once every couple of years or maybe for a period, for a couple of years.
How do you convince people that that is important?
Mitch Robbins: So, I've run into two types of individuals. The one is, I've got this in the bag. Don't worry about me. I appreciate your, your coaching, but I've done this. I'm, I'm seasoned and then they usually flounder because they didn't prepare.
That's the truth. The other one is somebody who's like, I really appreciate this. But then they get a little intimidated because there's so much information, so they get a little overwhelmed.
And how I boil that down is I say, here's the deal.
You're. Let's say you're a manager right now, okay? You have a team, so you interact with your team every single day. You have a senior director that you report to, who has a vice president that they report to, and you interact with them.
As a matter of fact, you're brought into some of the c suite meetings on your projects, and you have to present, and this is part of your responsibility on a day-to-day basis.
There is no difference between what you're doing in that company versus what you're about to talk about. The only difference is the people. You both share passion for the same thing.
Working in medical device, helping, you know, patient save, get care to patients.
You both are passionate about quality. You both have bosses that are at fairly similar levels. The only difference is the conversation dynamics. So, if you can put yourself in the mindset, all I'm doing is having a conversation about things that I live and breathe every single day.
Hopefully, that takes some of the nerves out, because that is your life.
Etienne Nichols: What's. What's interesting, when you put it in that context is just.
It's kind of a two-way street. And the one hand, yes, look at it like a conversation you would ordinarily. Ordinarily have in your job. But if you also look at the conversations that you have in your job as something of a negotiation, because a lot of times they are.
If you're in a meeting, you know, who's going to talk first, who's going to say what, you know, that's something of a negotiation. You're trying to navigate those political waters.
You can take that and learn it on the job and then apply it to this negotiation skills. Would you agree, or what are your thoughts?
Mitch Robbins: 100%. 100%. And I also think about, you know, in a negotiation, a good negotiation is you. Nobody wins everything that they want, but you come to a fair and reasonable, happy medium.
Right. But when you're negotiating, you're also thinking about what's important to that other person. Yeah. And I think a lot of times, people come in so focused on, how do I sell myself that they forget that if I can understand what's really important to this person and I can create a scenario to where I am seen as somebody who actually can help them with what's important,
I'm going to win. And that's why whenever somebody's interviewing, for example, on a panel, it's one thing to interview with HR, it's another thing to interview with the hiring manager.
What about the peer group?
Etienne Nichols: Yeah.
Mitch Robbins: So, walking in and saying, hey, this person, obviously I pride myself on the fact that collaboration across functional areas is important. What's important to you? How can this person help you?
Well, I appreciate you asking. As a matter of fact, I'm really fed up because last time we were going through this, they didn't care about. Man, that is frustrating. As a matter of fact, I think I've seen that in the past.
And here's what we've done about in my current organization.
How fast did you just get that person to resonate with you? Because they feel listened to, right? Yeah. And so, I think people miss that part. This is just a situation where you sit down, find out what's important to that person, tell them how you can help.
Really is.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah. To listen and care is a huge, huge lever to pull.
I'm going to throw out one more example because you, as you were talking, this, this instance popped into my mind straight out of college. I'd never worked in a corporate environment per se.
I was a machinist, welder, did cad and things like that. But I was not in the office yet. So, one of my first interviews, these crazy people, they brought in a nine-person panel.
I sat in a conference room. I was waiting for one person to come in and interview me. They brought nine people from varying levels of the company, sat there. You know what went through my mind?
I'm like, you know what? I'm going to own this. I'm just going to let you know, I ain't getting this job. That's the way I looked at them, like, I ain't getting this job.
So, I'm going to own this. And by the time that was done, we had such a good time. I made friends with pretty much everybody. Cause I just didn't care.
I mean, to a certain degree, it's kind of like that phrase, you gotta drink death like wine and crave life like water. I don't know, kind of going to mess that quote up.
But two or three months later, it was a long time, they came back and said, hey, we really want you for whatever reason. And. But the money, it just, it's just interesting.
The different ways you approach these conversations make a big difference. Your mindset, you mentioned mindset a couple of times.
Mitch Robbins: Huge. And you know what's sad is people.
I love that story, by the way, because. And look how it worked out. But sadly, when you're interviewing the people who are interviewing, you only have that much time to make a judgment call as well, right?
Yes, there could be some follow ups, but it's still a matter of a finite piece of time. Maybe it's two meetings instead of one, but it was 30 minutes each or an hour each.
That's only 2 hours to make a judgment call. Okay. And same with the candidate. That's why these impressions are so important. But when people are nervous or they're not prepared, that's all the interview panel has to go off of.
That's it. And so, when you hear the feedback on the back end, well, they didn't think that you had the experience with this. And the kids, like, I really do.
I do it, too. They're like, I'm sorry. They didn't hear it. So, they only could judge on that. So, the point is, coming back to what you said is the more that you can relax and realize that this is just another group of professionals in your same industry who share the similar interest to you to get things done for patients, the more hopefully calm and collected you can be. And I cannot express this loudly enough, the importance of preparing. And we haven't even dug into that. Like, well, how do you prepare?
What do you prepare? But you've got to prepare. You can't just show up and be like, I've got a call tomorrow. I'll see how it goes. Because then you don't have the leverage to make your own decisions.
You're putting it in the fate of what they think.
Etienne Nichols: Well, okay, so let me tell you how I think about preparing, and then you can fill in the gaps. Cause you that way. You can. Because I don't have your experience.
When I think of preparing, I think of, I want to know what this company does. I want to think, I want to know what this team does. And then I want to know who the people I'm talking to do.
That's kind of, I think, big picture, medium picture, you know, granular for the specific people, not getting into the specifics of what to do with each one of those. But what, where does your head go?
What do you think?
Mitch Robbins: Yeah, so that's a great, you know, high level overview. So, a couple of things. So, remember, it comes back to what I said, the value that the answers that you give to questions, the value of the questions that you ask.
And one of the biggest things that people think they're prepared for, that they're not, is why are you interested in working for Greenlight Guru, for example? Why Greenlight Guru? And what you'll hear a lot of times is, you know, remote obviously has kind of stormed the scene, but before it used to be, it's close to home.
I hear that it's a good culture, and this position really lines up with my skill set. I really haven't said anything about why Greenlight Gurus specifically. I've instead articulated what is kind of important to me that I could find in many different companies.
You want to be able to express very clearly what about that company stands out.
Why us? To give them the confidence that you've actually done some research so that you know who you're talking to. Okay.
The second piece is when it comes to questions to be prepared for, most questions are going to be things that you're doing on a daily basis anyways. I don't care if it's handling conflict.
I don't care if it's. How do you submit a. Don't care if it's. How do you present a stance that is contrary to what other or other functional areas want and how do you make your case?
Whatever it is, you're dealing with it. So, if you already know kind of some of the major areas you've dealt with or are dealing with, and also you look at your performance reviews, what are you benchmarked on?
What are you held accountable for? That's usually where those questions are going to come from. So, taking the time to have some thought out responses, they're going to ask me about conflict.
I've got three bullet points to talk about a very specific situation, what we did about. They're going to ask me how do I present or how do I submit a 510k end to end?
What goes into a 510k? Well, I know that, and I'm going to talk about that. The point is, you can give yourself some bullets. Sometimes people feel like it's not good to come in with notes.
I 1000% believe you should come in with notes. Okay. Because it keeps you on track whether it's the questions that you want to ask or if you need to jog your memory for responses, you've got, you know, some bullet points there.
The other piece I'm going, I don't want to go off on a tangent too much, but the other piece, I would say is when somebody's asked a hard question, you've.
You're faced with a crossroads. You can either b's your way through it and try to make up your best answer. Or you can be vulnerable and honest, say you don't know the answer.
Or here's the added bonus, you need a minute to think, okay? Two out of those three is okay, one is awful. Never b's your way through. Okay? Because you know this, you're a technical guy, you're an engineer by trade. Somebody's always going to know more than you and all they'll do is just keep pushing the boundary and see how much you're going to be as right.
Okay, so versus somebody's like, you know what, I don't know that answer, but here's what I would do to go find it. What you're demonstrating there is one. Honesty, integrity, vulnerability and resourcefulness.
What kind of attributes would you want to hire somebody who bs is or those four key areas. Right. But if you need a minute to think, it's okay. Hey, I really want to make sure I give you as clear and articulate as an answer as possible.
Can I have just 1 minute? I want to think through what you said, or I think you said this. Can you just clarify one more time? There's nothing wrong with that.
There really truly is nothing wrong with that.
So those pieces. And then I would say there's so much information out there you want to know. Hey, has this company gone through a recent funding round or are they trying to get funding?
If they're a public company, what do some of the recent press releases and some of the earnings reports say? You want to know the finance piece as well because you don't know who in the organization you're to speak to.
And you want to call out the fact that you've done some research, you can research their LinkedIn profiles, what are their key interests, what are their hobbies so that you have some commonality.
Hey, I saw you're a bear’s fan. I'm sorry. I am too. Right? You know what I mean? That's me personally. That's me personally. But there's so many different avenues of research that you can do so that you're fully prepared.
And then also, as far as the questions that you want to ask, I always say, take the whole panel. I'm going to talk to a director of finance, I'm going to talk to the VP of marketing, I'm going to talk to the VP of regulatory, I'm going to talk to the director of human resources.
Something is important to all these people that is different from the next.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah.
Mitch Robbins: So, what questions do I want to ask this person on purpose that's related to their function, functional area and how my position relates to what's important to them. What questions do I want to ask?
And then what similar questions do I want to ask in each of the interviews to see how much consistency I get back.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah, that's good. I like that. I'm going to throw out one question that I ask at the end of the interview if I pretty much run out. So, this. And. And I think it's dependent on the person.
But I remember going through as VP of engineering, VP of product, all the different way, and then I ended with the VP of HR.
Mitch Robbins: Yeah.
Etienne Nichols: So, I sit down with her and we're talking and she said, so, do you have any questions for me? And my mind was mush. And so, I said, you know, maybe one question would be, what question would you ask? Or what have I not asked? I'd really like to know because my brain is just kind of blank at the moment, but I know there are things that I still need to learn.
And she's like, that's a good question. She just went through all these different things that I hadn't thought to ask. And I don't know if that would always work, but I wanted to get your advice on that.
Mitch Robbins: I don't know if it would always work, too, but what I'd like you to say is, what am I not thinking of that I should be thinking of? That's a great question.
It's almost like, in a way, maybe the technical terms aren't right, but it's almost like reverse psychology in a way.
It really is.
What should I be thinking of that I maybe have missed? That I should know about this opportunity, or I should know about the company? I think it's great. You mentioned the VP of HR.
The other thing too is people, I said earlier, a vanilla question gets a vanilla response.
What type of person are you looking for? Or what are you looking for in this person? Hey, historically, you're the VP of HR. Obviously, culture is a huge priority to you of maintaining, you know, consistency across the board here.
How would you. How would you explain the types of individuals who have thrived here culturally and the types that really haven't?
Etienne Nichols: Yeah, that's good.
Mitch Robbins: Let's see how they describe it. And how does that align with you? It might draw up a flag. It might be. It might just actually solidify that this is the right place for you but let them actually describe it.
Or. Or how do you describe culture? What does that mean to you? What does it mean to XYZ company? Well, to us it means this, this and this. Because that can be such a buzzword.
Right. So, if you're curious about the cultural aspects, asking those other things, the other thing I want to throw out to you at the end is before the interview, you could talk to people who used to work there, who currently work there, who have a friend who works there.
What should I expect? What do you like about working there? What. What concerns do you have? What do you think? What's one thing that you think I should be thinking about before I, you know, come to the interview?
Things like that. So, to kind of get a different vantage point as well.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah, yeah. That's good. What about the onboarding? We alluded to that earlier.
Mitch Robbins: Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, let me get to that. But I want to say one more thing, because you mentioned at the end, you asked questions. So, here's a question that I really, really, truly stand by.
One of the biggest complaints from candidates is that they walk out and they feel like everything went well, but they have this kind of uncertainty of, did it go well?
Did it not? I hope it went well. Please let me know what you hear. You know, I hope next steps will happen and they don't know. Yeah. Okay. Well, I want to give you some agency over that.
And I want to give you a question that if you ask this, you pretty much have a 67% chance of establishing closure to the conversation. And it goes like this.
Etienne, you know what? First and foremost, thanks so much for taking the time to speak with me. I really appreciate it. I also want to let you know I'm really excited about this opportunity.
Before we wrap up, are there any questions or concerns I haven't addressed for you? In order to give you the confidence, now, this is where it changes. If it's the first round, in order to give you the confidence, it makes sense to move forward in the process.
Or if it's at the end, in order to give you the confidence I could be successful in this role. Here's why I suggest asking this question so strongly. There's. I've done this for over 15 years.
This is my 16th year in the business. There’re only one of three answers you can get. The first answer is they're going to acknowledge the value of the conversation as well and tell you what they want to do next.
The second response that you might get is somebody would voice a concern to you. Guess what? It's a second chance. It's an opportunity right then and there to alleviate that concern and.
And do some clarification. The only other answer that I know of is some sort of poker face where one of two reasons that they don't want to respond. One, they, they can't.
They need to debrief with their team and, and go through it. Or two, they just are caught off guard. They don't know what to say and they want more time.
They might say no. I appreciate the conversation as well. As a matter of fact, I'll talk with the team and we're going to come back to you, you know, as quickly as we can.
Or no, I think this is a great conversation. You know, I've got a couple other interviews lined up and then we can certainly get back to you. Guess what? Two out of those three answers are productive and in your favor.
Either it's positive or it's a concern that you get to address. Either way, they both work for you. So, I would really highly recommend people add that so that they don't feel that uncertainty walking out as much.
Etienne Nichols: I really like that. That's really good. I'm going to put that, my arsenal of questions, I think the, you kind of alluded to open versus closed questions, too, and that one's almost like close.
It's loosely open because you have that third, you know, maybe option. But is that something that you, you want to touch on or is that something you've thought about?
Mitch Robbins: So I think during the interview, you want to ask as open ended questions as possible for where it makes sense, and you want to ask very specific, direct questions where it doesn't like what are the two or three critical priorities you're hoping the person can work on if they give you the response.
I was joking about where they say, we need somebody who's a team player.
You need to push back because you need specificity.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah.
Mitch Robbins: In the other hand, open ended questions give you much more color. Like, hey, what would you, what would need to happen within the next six months for you to, for you to feel like, hey, you know what?
This absolutely was the right hire. You want that really open because you want to understand where their vision is and then you can back into their vision. So, I think it's a kind of a yin and a yang thing.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah. Something I've always really cared about when I'm doing the research on a company is the CEO themselves. And, you know, I mean, everybody has a different metric to judge a company by, but I really care about what the CEO.
I always try to read everything they've written, if they, if they publish things, things like that. That's one thing that I care about.
Mitch Robbins: Should care is a gal or a guy who's driving the organization. Absolutely.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah. So just throw that one out there. What about the onboarding? The first, you know, make yourself known. All that. All that jazz.
Mitch Robbins: Yep. So, a couple of things. I would say that you really got to take agency over this and not necessarily leave it to somebody else to tell you what to do.
Meaning that not every hiring manager is going to be the best onboarder. Not every talent acquisition department is going to be the best onboarding. You know, have the best onboarding program.
Keep in mind that you are, from day one, going to be judged on your performance in one way, shape or form. So have some agencies over what you need. I haven't gotten my computer yet.
Who do I need to follow up with? I'm not just going to sit there waiting for it to ship me the computer. I'm supposed to meet the manager and he's blown me off two times.
I'm going to follow up and try to. Not your manager, but perhaps a cross functional team member. I'm supposed to have a status meeting with my manager. Let me have some agency over following up to when we're going to do it.
I don't understand, you know, what the objective is here. Let me schedule a meeting and ask questions. You really got to take some responsibility over this. I hear too many times like these off the record conversations.
They're just kind of leaving me, you know, to the wind. I don't know. I am doing my best. I don't know. Well, what can you do? Have you expressed that concern?
No, I really don't. I haven't because I don't want to open a can of worms. It's not a can of worms because if your manager thinks you know what you need to do and you're not able to do that, that's not good for them either.
So that's the biggest piece, I would say.
Etienne Nichols: I think it's almost like unlocking the matrix when you realize in business that you're there to get something done. Not necessarily just do task x y z b c for in perpetuity but actually move the business forward.
When you, when you unlock that, it's kind of like there's a phrase, see if I can remember it. Don't throw me to the wolves because I may be, I may come back leading the pack and go lead the pack.
It's okay, you know, maybe they're Nate, they need a leader at this point, so, yeah, I think that's good. That you pull that out.
Mitch Robbins: That's awesome. And recognize, too, that you are one of many, many, many priorities for all the other stakeholders. Your manager, talent acquisition, cross function. But they've all got their plates full, too, so you need to speak up.
And squeaky wheel gets the grease. It just does.
Etienne Nichols: Right? Yeah.
One more analogy on that. My dad always, he was a farmer, and he said, you know, the cows that would come up to me to get medicated were healthier than the ones that I had to chase down to give their medication.
Not that you want to be a cow, but I just think sometimes a farmer analogy, you go get what you need, you're going to have a better relationship with your manager.
Mitch Robbins: So, you know what? That's a great analogy. I love that one. Absolutely.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah. Talk to farmers. It always helps. They have the best analogies.
Mitch Robbins: Did you grow up in Indiana?
Etienne Nichols: I actually grew up in Tulsa, Oklahoma, believe it or not.
Mitch Robbins: Oh, you did? Okay.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah. So, yeah, I'm. Right now, I'm limping because of an old rodeo wound, but, you know, eventually I'll walk again. We. We alluded to a lot of the layoffs that happened last year.
Yeah. There's probably a lot of people in that imposition. You know, maybe they're going to take your advice. Hopefully they take your advice on preparing for the interview, but maybe they don't have an interview yet.
What are some things they can be doing right now?
Mitch Robbins: Sure. So, I would say anybody who's looking for a job right now who's been laid off has to be networking their butts off. Don't. You cannot rely on the fact that you sit down and bust out 100 applications a day and think that you're being proactive.
It just please understand that these people who are fielding the applications are overwhelmed. Like, you can't imagine. They're getting 200 applications in 20 minutes, sometimes for one job, and they're managing 25 jobs.
Okay. And you expect that your application is going to somehow cut through the noise and land on their desk at the right time, the right place. Please. You can't. You can't operate that way, so you have to network your butts off.
You should be using LinkedIn like there's no other. You should be reaching out to the people who know, like, and trust you already and letting them know what you're after.
And you got to be specific. You got. I'm looking for this type of company, this type of role, this type of compensation. Who do you recommend I speak to? Who do you think that might be able to advance my own, you know, initiatives here and that's obviously formal if you know somebody.
But the point is that you got to start having these conversations. The other thing is if you are applying online, please do not be afraid to connect with the hiring manager online and use your phone. Go on the LinkedIn app. On your phone is the capability to send a selfie video.
Nobody's doing this. Okay. I do this in my own business. I would tell you that I get a tremendous response rate and most of the times like, wow, what a great introduction.
I haven't seen that before. Okay, so it's still early on to use video through the LinkedIn DMs. Do that. You'll stand out. If you want to apply, that’s fine. Follow up.
Hey, I noticed you’re looking for this and you’re hoping that somebody can do this, this and this. I actually did that at XYZ. Here’s what we did. Even if you’re not in a position to hire me, I’d welcome the opportunity to connect and give as much value to you as I can, knowing that that’s what you’re looking for or hey, I just submitted my application online. I’m sure you got 100 things. This is why I think I might be a good fit.
Are you open to speaking for ten minutes?
Etienne Nichols: Yeah.
Mitch Robbins: And the people who are going to push the envelope and really stay proactive and stay true to following up, as we say, the gold is in the follow up are the ones that are going to win.
It's just, there's no other way right now. There just isn't.
One more thing at the end, please. I want to make this also really an important statement. I've seen this too many times where an executive or somebody in a high-level leadership position is getting anxious because they've been out on the market for a while and they're not getting traction.
And then they get an interview for a job that's two steps below their skillset and, and their compensation, what they should be making. And because of the anxiety of not having a job, they feel like they need to take this job.
Please, if you're somebody who's thinking about this, please take a deep breath and slow down for a minute and realize there's other avenues where you can make money. You can do consulting.
You can find there's ways to use your skillset for the time being because here's what's going to happen. You're going to get onboarded within six months. You're going to get bit, get bored, and you're going to frustrate.
You're going to regret this decision. The company's not going to be thrilled because you're not engaged. The market's going to turn and get busier. Recruiters going to call you about a position that's at your level, and you're going to leave.
That's not good for anybody. It's not good for anybody. Those are the things I would say.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah, no, that's really good. One of the things that, when you're talking about knowing what you're doing, knowing what you did previously, being able to present that to people as you network.
One of the things that I think about a lot when I talk to people is they don't always know what industry they're really in. And when I say that we're in med tech, okay, that's one thing.
You're. You're in recruiting or I'm in podcasting, whatever you want to call it. But are you in med tech? Are you in orthopedics? Are you in the regulatory side of that?
How specific can you get? Is that helpful in your mind or what do you think?
Mitch Robbins: Yeah, I think that. So, we basically marketing terms avatar. Right. Who is the avatar that you serve and what is important to them?
Etienne Nichols: Yeah.
Mitch Robbins: And the more narrow and. And specific you can be and understand who you're reaching out to, what their specific pain points are, because it's fairly similar to what you've dealt with, the more you're going to resonate with the person that you're hoping to get a response from, so.
Absolutely.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's. I just think people should really think a little bit more about that. Are you in med tech? You have the option to be a class two IVD that works in Europe, you know, and that is your sweet spot.
That, you know, now, you know, you don't want to get outside. You maybe want to get outside that, but. But that helps with networking. Who does look for who to search.
Mitch Robbins: For and so on and look for as many warm introductions as possible. You know, I always. Somebody put it best to me.
You want to use every tool in the toolbox you can. Above the line. What is above the line? Above the line is all your warm stuff. Below the line is the cold stuff.
So, before you reach out cold, and if you need to, please, I'm saying to do that. But before you do. Hey, John Smith's the hiring manager at XYZ company. Who am I connected to that knows John Smith?
Oh, Etienne knows it. I've known Etienne for years. Let me at least ask Etienne. How does he know John Smith. Oh, John and I go golfing, you know, once a month, as a matter of fact.
Blah, blah, blah. Oh, that's awesome, dude. He's got a position. Is there any way you'd be willing to make an introduction? Yeah, I'd be happy to. Well, guess what? How much warmer, how much stronger is that introduction going to be versus had you just done what I said, send a video cold.
So always try to think above the line, like, how can I get to this person warmly? The other thing too is the more value you can somehow create for somebody and help before they ask, the better off you're going to be in any network situation.
Now, if it's, if it's, and you've got different types of reaches, right? You've got those that might be a little bit longer play where while I'm filling out these applications and reaching out to these people cold.
I've got this other hot list that I'm going to warm the heck up. I'm going to send maybe I had a report that I did at XYZ company. That's public information.
I'm going to send it because I know that they're going through something similar. I'm going to give it to them. Then my next touch is, hey, did you have a chance to read section three point, but I noticed that you guys are dealing with this.
Did that help you? Great. Hey, would you be open to an introductory conversation? I love what you guys are doing over there. I'd love to learn more. And on that call, I'm happy to share anything else that might help you.
Great. That's a whole networking stream. In addition to these hopefully quicker wins of the other approach.
Etienne Nichols: What's crazy to me is over 16 years, the actual strategy probably hasn't changed a lot with those warm leads and so on, but with LinkedIn, everything else, you've probably seen amazing changes.
With the ability to, to see connections. That's crazy, isn't it?
Mitch Robbins: And, and just how much is at people's fingertips, how much information is on the Internet, how much you can educate yourself very, very quickly, and how quickly you can reach people that you want to reach through the power of LinkedIn.
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.
Etienne Nichols: That's so cool.
Mitch Robbins: But people, but here's the other thing I would say, though. People sometimes feel like, oh, I can't necessarily go outside the process. If they're interested, they'll call me. It's not that way.
It's not that way. I think in today's market, it used to be eight touches. Until somebody knows your name and remembers you in sales. Now it's like twelve. I think it's like twelve.
So, it's no different with this. You're just another application in a sea of 200. Make them want to know you. Make them want to respond to you. The only way you could do that is getting outside your comfort zone and being proactive with your outreach and do it, you know, professionally. Do it with value, leading with value, but do it and don't feel like you're circumventing a process. That process is broken. The process of getting online, spending 40 minutes to fill out an application and hoping for the best.
It's broken.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah. I think we don't always know the value of ourselves and so that's pretty important as well. But like you said, life begins at the, at the end of your comfort zone.
So definitely get out there. That's awesome. Where can people find you? And do you have any last piece of advice, recommendations? I know we're kind of to the end here, but any last piece of advice for the audience?
Mitch Robbins: I would say my advice again, comes back to thinking of the other party that's involved. And the more that you can think about the other party's perspective and what might be important to them, the more you're going to win, whether you're hiring somebody or whether you're interviewing somewhere.
Same thing with networking. Put the other person first. What can I do today that's going to create value and a lasting impression with that person?
And then what I would say is, if anybody has any questions, they can always reach out to me. I'm on LinkedIn. Mitch Robbins. The Anthony micro group is the name of our search firm.
We have a brand new, brand spanking new website, the AnthonyMichael group.com, that people are more than welcome to check out. We'd love to hear from you.
Etienne Nichols: Okay, well, we'll put a link in the show notes so people can check that out. But Mitch, thanks for coming on the show. Really appreciate it. I hope people are able to take this and really apply it and come out of the other side and make 2024 the best year ever.
Mitch Robbins: So, thank you so much. It's my pleasure. Thanks so much for having me. I really do appreciate it and love your podcast. So, thank you.
Etienne Nichols: All right. Thank you so much. Take care. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, can I ask a special favor from you? Can you leave us a review on iTunes? I know most of us have never. Done that before, but if you're listening. On the phone, look at the iTunes app. Scroll down to the bottom where it says leave a review. It's actually really easy. Same thing with computer. Just look for that leave a review button. This helps others find us, and it lets us know how we're doing. Also, I'd personally love to hear from you on LinkedIn. Reach out to me. I read and respond to every message because hearing your feedback is the only way I'm going to get better. Thanks again for listening, and we'll see you next time.
About the Global Medical Device Podcast:
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The Global Medical Device Podcast powered by Greenlight Guru is where today's brightest minds in the medical device industry go to get their most useful and actionable insider knowledge, direct from some of the world's leading medical device experts and companies.
