podcast_Aaron-Lucas-Jesseca-Lyons

If you love learning and want to level up your medical device industry knowledge on topics such as audits, document management, design controls, risk management, and more, Greenlight Guru Academy is your education destination.

In this episode of the Global Medical Device Podcast, Jon Speer invites colleagues Aaron Lucas, Training and Education Manager, and Jesseca Lyons, Operations and Enablement Guru, to join the show and explain to listeners what Greenlight Guru Academy is and how the eLearning platform is helping users around the world advance their medical device careers.

 

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Some highlights of this episode include:

  • Greenlight Guru Academy is a learning management system (LMS) path that allows medical device gurus, customers, and others to share knowledge and educational content and courses to encourage retention and effectiveness.
  • About six years ago, whenever a new customer would come on board with Greenlight Guru, it was a manual process. Fast forward to a few years later, Greenlight Guru Academy has made that process automatic and evergreen.
  • Feedback from some of the thousands of Greenlight Guru Academy users who have completed the various courses help gauge success and types of content.
  • Learner’s Mindset: I want to do the right thing. I want to make it better. I want to help someone, but it’s next to impossible to do. Demystify the medical device space, especially as the industry changes.
  • Greenlight Guru Academy is for anyone getting started to veterans wanting to hone their skills in the medical device industry. Expect to see a lot more audit and inspection courses and content. Also, expect basic regulatory learning.

 

Links:

Aaron Lucas on LinkedIn

Jesseca Lyons on LinkedIn

Greenlight Guru Academy - Enroll Now

About Greenlight Guru Academy

FDA - Medical Devices

International Organization for Standardization (ISO)

510(k) Premarket Notification

European Union’s Medical Device Regulation (EU MDR)

Risk Management True Quality Summit Series

Greenlight Guru YouTube Channel

MedTech True Quality Stories Podcast

Greenlight Guru

 

Memorable Quotes from this episode:

“In the academy, we have all sorts of awesome courses - go at your own pace courses - on topics like document management, design controls, risk management, training, audits, and the list is going to continue to grow and evolve.” Jon Speer

“Ultimately, the academy looks to really be this educational kind of beacon in the medical device industry for anything anyone could ever need to know from just getting started to a veteran looking to hone their skills.” Aaron Lucas

“There’s something about the medical device industry that breeds these folks who don’t just recognize that they have to learn this stuff but they actually kind of like it.” Aaron Lucas

“Why am I making a medical device in the first place? I want to help someone.” Jesseca Lyons

“This is an opportunity to get a chance to really impact more and more people.” Jesseca Lyons


Transcript:

Announcer: Welcome to The Global Medical Device Podcast, where today's brightest minds in the medical device industry go to get their most useful and actionable insider knowledge direct from some of the world's leading medical device experts and companies.

Jon Speer: So we have this really awesome thing that we've rolled out at Greenlight, and it's called the Greenlight Guru Academy. You can access this by going to academy.greenlight.guru. In the academy, we have all sorts of awesome go-at-your-own-pace courses on topics like document management, design controls, risk management, training, audits, and the list is going to continue to grow and evolve. And we have different levels of courses. Some that are free, some that are customer specific to provide better information and training to teach how to be more effective with the Greenlight Guru workflows. We have some that are super premium courses that have a nominal fee that are associated with them. So all sorts of different options. If you love learning, and you want to pick up some knowledge about some topics that maybe you know a little bit about, or maybe you don't know that much about, but would like to sharpen your skills, go check it out, academy.greenlight.guru. And joining me on this episode of The Global Medical Device Podcast are two folks that are working very diligently to ensure that the academy is top- notch all the time and meets your needs. So enjoy this episode of The Global Medical Device Podcast. Hello, and welcome to The Global Medical Device Podcast. This is your host and founder at Greenlight Guru, Jon Speer. And joining me on this episode of The Global Medical Device Podcast are two of my colleagues at Greenlight Guru. Joining me is Aaron Lucas. Aaron, I know I just asked you, but your role at Greenlight is Training and Education Manager, correct?

Aaron Lucas: That is correct. Yeah.

Jon Speer: All right. Got it. All right. Cool. And then Jessica Lyons, Jessica is a Senior Medical Device Guru.

Jessica Lyons: Oh no, it's changed again.

Jon Speer: Oh my goodness. Well, but that title is technically accurate.

Jessica Lyons: I know.

Jon Speer: So I guess, Jessica, enlighten us. What is your role these days?

Jessica Lyons: Operations and Enablement Guru now.

Jon Speer: Oh nice.

Jessica Lyons: Yeah.

Jon Speer: So what does that mean?

Jessica Lyons: It means that I get to spend more time hanging out with you and Aaron going through and developing all of this different content with the GG Academy and anything that makes our customers successful in terms of getting up to speed quickly. But more importantly, I now get to focus more internally on helping our team members with training and making life a little easier.

Jon Speer: All right. So thank you for that. And so the topic that I thought the three of us could dive into a little bit today and share with the outside world, I mean, we're all pretty familiar with it, but we have this thing called Greenlight Guru Academy that's been out there now for a couple of, yeah, I guess about a month and a half, a couple of months, something like that. Aaron, I guess give folks a little bit of an overview. What is Greenlight Guru Academy and what is that all about?

Aaron Lucas: Yeah. I think anybody familiar with Greenlight has most likely found some of our content, I think. It's definitely been one of the strengths of the company in the past. The marketing team and the gurus and Jon have created this culture where if you have knowledge, there are tons of ways to share it. And so the academy really is just a focused version of that educational content, right? So it's very much from an educational perspective, not as much from that marketing perspective. Some people will appreciate that. My boss, Nick from marketing maybe is like, no, no, it is still marketing. But ultimately the academy looks to really be this educational kind of beacon in the medical device industry, for anything anyone could ever need to know from just getting started to a veteran, looking to hone their skills.

Jon Speer: Sure. I mean, and this is... I think probably a few other things to share about the Greenlight Guru Academy is it's an LMS style or learning management system style offering, I guess, or path that you can take. As we're talking, how many courses do we have available?

Aaron Lucas: Oh man, I think-

Jon Speer: About a half dozen, right? Give or take.

Aaron Lucas: There's a couple of different ways to count that. But yeah, in terms of publicly available to folks that are non- Greenlight Guru customers, I think we just hit seven this week, full courses that are available and that doesn't count some of our event courses that are available. So for example, Greenlight Guru does these awesome virtual summits where we have industry experts come and do amazing webinars for us and talks. We're going to be recording that kind of thing and having that on the academy as well. So all of those from our March Virtual Summit are available, which was like 19 sessions or something crazy. So, yeah, like I said, it depends on how you count that and what you consider a course, but the academy is going to have a lot of different types of content that we feel have educational value.

Jon Speer: Yeah, absolutely. And we're adding new courses to the academy all the time on a variety of topics that are very important to medical device professionals. As I mentioned at the time of recording, anyway, we have courses on training. We have courses on audits. We have courses on design controls, risk, document management. I'm probably forgetting some, but we're going to continue to evolve and add additional courses. And these are go- at- your- own- pace style courses. And they're, I'll say mixed media. Some of them are static screens, some have videos. There's some quizzes that are incorporated throughout it to try to incorporate or to encourage retention and effectiveness and things of that nature. Jessica, I know from your vantage point, I mean, you and I have been in this journey together at Greenlight now for, I always forget, five plus years. And you and I have talked quite a bit about this in the times that we chat. But I remember the time you came in for the interview, I handed you the phone, you talked to a customer, I was talking to you during the interview process. And, as they say, I guess the rest is history, but your primary role at Greenlight has been about customer education, teaching and training them how to be more effective with the platform and those sorts of things. So I know the answer and I know I'm leading you a little bit, but are there courses available in the academy that can help Greenlight Guru customers be more effective?

Jessica Lyons: Yes. And that's where Aaron was kind of mentioning and leading with, there's different ways to count how many courses. So the great news is that our Greenlight customers have access to special content. And what is that special content? Well, it's ways to really, truly lean into, leverage and get the most out of Greenlight. So Greenlight's constantly changing and evolving and we're getting new features and new things are out there, but how do you really learn how to use it to its fullest extent? Maybe that was you contacted your guru, your CSM. Well, now there's ways for you to be able to get everybody in your company on board with what you learned during your guru sessions or during your initial onboarding. You hire somebody a year and a half later, now they get to go through and they get to learn it themselves. So they're going to be able to take all of the same types of training and courses you did, or you can repeat it if you've forgotten everything that you learned last year.

Jon Speer: Yeah. It's a great asset. I mean, obviously, Jessica, you remember, I remember, five, six years ago, whenever a new customer would come on board with Greenlight Guru, it was a very, I'll say manual process from our perspective where we would schedule calls. All right, Jessica, you just thought Greenlight. Today, we're going to go through document management. And we would spend an hour going through that. And usually we would record that and send that recording after the fact. But fast forward a few years later, we realized that it's marginally effective at best, right? So we're able to reach maybe one or two or maybe a handful of folks within a company. And what happens when they are new employees?

Jessica Lyons: Right.

Jon Speer: Or what happens when some of those other employees leave and that knowledge now goes with those people? So this is a little bit more evergreen, right?

Jessica Lyons: Well, and the other side of it is what happens when the training that you did on that platform, like it changed? So now the recording shows you one thing, but what's live in the environment that you're actually using is something completely, totally different. So now what? Do you trust what's in your environment? Do you trust what's in your training? How do you keep up to date with everything that's rolling out all those new changes? So this is going to be a great way for you to keep up to date yourself, even after you've gone through the initial training, you're always welcome to go back. We're keeping those up to date as the platform changes and evolves, and we're adding fun little things here and there. So there's three key tips on what could you do to be successful in each one of the different workspaces.

Jon Speer: Nice.

Jessica Lyons: And then also connecting it to some of the other content. So like, what is document management in general? Why bother with all of this document stuff? And then how do you use Greenlight once you've learned about why is it important or how do you use the platform?

Jon Speer: Yeah, absolutely. So Aaron, I know, again, it's still relatively early days with the Greenlight Guru Academy, but we've had quite a few folks use this, several hundred folks, maybe even several thousand folks use or go through some of the different courses. What is some of the type of feedback or themes that you've been picking up as folks are getting acclimated and going through some of the different courses?

Aaron Lucas: Yeah, I think there are a couple of things that we've been tracking to kind of gauge success and the types of content that folks are really interested in. I think the first thing that I noticed is that we've got a lot of learners spending multiple hours on content, which tells me that the appetite is definitely there, right? At least for me, from my instructional design background, getting people to spend even five minutes to watch a video, was pulling teeth. And there is something about the medical device industry that breeds these folks who don't just recognize that they have to learn this stuff, but they actually kind of like it. And I think we're starting to realize that this community, I'm starting to realize, and I'm sure you all knew that already, but it's very academic, very much into learning and into furthering itself through education. And that's been a huge win. So far, we launched the academy on March 8th and we have seen over 700 total session hours spent in the academy.

Jon Speer: And we're just getting started, right? So I mean, that's the tip.

Aaron Lucas: Yeah, that's all in a month and a half. And so I think we're really starting to understand the investment people are willing to take when they see value in these courses. So session time has been really huge. And it's one of those things that I'm trying to wrap my head around and figure out, what does that even mean? Like what do we do now? Where do we go from here?

Jon Speer: Yeah. I mean, that's good feedback. I hadn't thought about it from that perspective about the industry being so hungry to learn. And one of the thoughts that I'm pondering about that is, I think they're hungry to learn. And this is a hypothesis, so feel free to poke some holes in this, but I think folks are hungry to learn because others before Greenlight Guru have made this topic more complicated maybe than it needs to be. So, that's my hypothesis. Poke holes in it.

Aaron Lucas: Jessica, what do you think? I'm new to it.

Jessica Lyons: I mean, can I just speck it?

Aaron Lucas: Yeah, I'm new to the industry. So you tell me, Jessica.

Jessica Lyons: I mean, I'll 100% agree. Like everybody always made it seem so difficult, so challenging. I mean, we threw in all this terminology and acronyms. I guess there's so many things that are so similar too, like DHF, DMR, DHR. Like, what do these letters mean? How do I go through this? And people always wanted to make it... Well, back in my day, if you didn't have 3000 lines for risk management, you hadn't done risk. And it's like, okay, well, is a number really that important? How do we make it better? What do we do here? What do we do there? And I think there's a lot of people, like you said, having that learner's mindset, I want to do the right thing. I want to make it better. People who are brand new to the industry, it's like, I want to help someone. Why am I making a medical device in the first place? I want to help someone. And if we're going through and now saying, everybody I talk to says, it's next to impossible for me to be able to do this because I got to do this crazy, ridiculous number of lines of whatever, or I've got to have certain things or I'll fail audits. How do I handle all of these different topics? How do I even figure out what these acronyms mean? I mean, it's like learning a brand new language. This is where we get to have a unique opportunity to demystify the medical device space.

Jon Speer: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think, well, I know, if you look at the history of Greenlight Guru and, Aaron, you mentioned this at the beginning, with our platform, but also with our content, our focus has been about trying to help... Sorry, I saw a shiny object and I don't know who this is, but we'll manage. There's other people, so bear with me. But from the beginning, it was all about trying to demystify the things that medical device professionals need to do. Our platform tries to reinforce simple, but best practices and expected behaviors. Aaron, to your point, the content that we're offering on the regular is all about that, too, trying to teach and educate and inform people on things. And I think this academy, I'm really excited about that because it's really an extension of our existing content in that it teaches people simple ways, best practices, to your point, Jessica, demystifies that. And we're talking about things that have historically been super complicated, I think, like design controls. People get like stuck in that topic or risk management or training, audits, things of that nature.

Jessica Lyons: Well, and as the industry changes, like audits in particular, that was something where we're used to having boots on the ground-

Aaron Lucas: For sure.

Jessica Lyons: And somebody shows up, how do we do this? And now what?

Aaron Lucas: For sure.

Jessica Lyons: I mean, how does it look now?

Jon Speer: Yeah. And audits is a really interesting one. And I think we're still in the middle of figuring out what the new normal is going to be on that one. So stay tuned to that. I know probably by the time this is published, we would have already done it. And so we'll provide a link to it. I'll have to figure out the time travel of all these different events, but at Greenlight Guru, we've got a Regulatory Advisory Board. The Regulatory Advisory Board is comprised of a lot of industry experts, people who are used to be, or are with notified bodies or FDA and that sort of thing. And so we have a panel discussion that takes place at the end of May, May 28th is when it's scheduled for. So by the time you're listening to this, it would have already happened. I hope you followed me there. I made that way more complicated than it needed to be. But we're going to learn about what the new normal is going to be. Obviously with the pandemic, audits, FDA inspections were pretty much on hold, not 100%, but not the normal, everyday operating as we would have expected from FDA. And then ISO started to shift to do more remote audits. At some point we're going to get out of this pandemic, but my prediction is audit practices are going to change dramatically. We're going to pick some of these practices that leveraged technology and some of the practices that worked well during the pandemic. So I predict that there will be some sort of hybrid approach. That was a long ramble. You guys should have cut me off. I guess, Aaron, looking forward, what other topics do you see us exploring and incorporating into the academy?

Aaron Lucas: Yeah, I think one of the things about being from outside of the industry and coming in to kind of tackle something like this is I'm realizing you have to think about making the next best choice, like the next best step. And that's kind of the mode that we're in right now with the academy. We have obviously plenty of value to create now and a completely endless amount of value we can create looking forward. And so we're really, at least from my perspective, kind of doing the same thing as someone who is new to this industry, trying to figure it all out is just, what's the next best thing I could be doing? So we're focusing on audits a lot, because as you said, the audit landscape is changing a lot right now. More audits are about to start happening as the pandemic slows down, as we begin to work our way out of that. But a lot of those activities are happening differently than they were before. And so we're trying to get a handle on that. So expect to see a lot more audit and inspection courses and content on the academy. In general, expect to see a lot of regulatory learning on kind of the basics, I guess you could say. If we're going to start anywhere, if we're going to raise the bar in the medical device industry, we'll start at the basics, right? We'll start at the beginning. For those of you out there, listening, thinking, I already know all of that stuff, that's great. We appreciate you as well, and we'll have content for you soon. But for my sake, we're kind of taking a very agile approach to this and kind of starting from what would someone need to get up and running if they're new to this industry? And maybe sprinkle in some advanced content here and there, like Jon said with the Regulatory Advisory Board and a lot of our industry experts that feed us content information. So I think we're going to be doing a lot of regulatory discussions and content. We're going to be doing a lot of audit and inspection content. If you're a Greenlight customer expect to start to see deeper- dive content on the platform and maybe you've ever gotten into it before. Maybe you were just using us for dock management and design controls, and hadn't really looked into training management, or hadn't looked into how to use a feature like Intelligent Document Management, one of our newer products to automate some of this stuff. We want to show that to you. We want you to know the value that you can get from those things and to chat with us about it. So I would say expect to take deeper dives on those topics.

Jon Speer: Somebody is excited about that. Yeah, and I think this is a continuum. I think, regardless if you're brand new to industry or not, to Jessica's point and to Aaron's point, I mean, there's constant change or evolution. I don't think there's a revolution per se, with respect to the thinking of regulatory bodies or expected practices. I mean, it moves at a glacial pace at times, but nonetheless it is moving. The target is always moving. Audits probably a little bit faster than maybe some of the other things, but regulatory is a good one. I think a lot of folks are like, I already know about that thing called a 510( k) or a tech file, but let's be real, the EUMDR, it's essentially live. And what you did pre EUMDR is going to be different than post EUMDR. Jessica, what are you most excited about with respect to the academy?

Jessica Lyons: I guess what I'm most excited about is that this is an opportunity to get a chance to really impact more and more people. I mean, let's face it. Our content reached a really wide, broad audience. I mean, I've heard through the years," Oh, that article really helped me explain to my team on this," or," We read The Ultimate Guide and it changed the way that we approached our," you mentioned 510( k)." It changed the way that we structured and approached our 510( k)," or," We were able to actually push back on our regulatory consultant and say,'Well, here's what we found out.' And we were able to find maybe a different approach to something." But the fact that we get a chance to really truly change the behaviors of an entire industry through training, I'm very excited about that. Honestly, if you're not having fun doing design controls and not having fun doing risk, I mean, if you're not having fun doing your job as a medical device professional, we got to change your thought process because this whole thing, it can be so much more fun than what we give it credit for. So, that's what we're going to do. We're going to make our customers have more fun. We're going to make the industry have more fun. We're going to bring a lighthearted approach to learning and make life more enjoyable.

Jon Speer: I mean, we are making medical devices, or at least from a Greenlight perspective are facilitating that process. And I mean, medical devices save lives. That's pretty cool, right?

Jessica Lyons: Yeah.

Jon Speer: So the fact that we get to have a part in that, I mean, I've always just appreciated that. I don't know if you both know, but many folks have probably heard me talk about my journey in the medical device industry. But there was a moment in time, fortunately, it was very early in my career where I had one of those moments that's like, what I do as a medical device professional matters. It could be for good or for not so good. I prefer it to be for good. So that idea, that mission of improving the quality of life has been my guiding force, my north star, if you will, for many, many years. And it's awesome to see how everyone at Greenlight, and I mean this, everyone at Greenlight resonates with that at some level, whether that be helping our customers or living a little vicariously through what our customers are doing with their products, it's really exciting.

Jessica Lyons: Well, and for us, at least for me, I've taken that improve the quality of life beyond, I think what the original intent really was. And whether you're a customer of Greenlight or you're just a consumer of content, we're improving the quality of your life.

Jon Speer: Absolutely.

Jessica Lyons: We're giving you knowledge and connecting you to things and demystifying it or giving you a template, just making it easier for you to do your job. And so at the end of the day, even if you're not a customer per se of Greenlight, we've improved your life and we've helped you bring your medical devices to market.

Jon Speer: Absolutely.

Jessica Lyons: So now I get to help that patient. I mean, it's all very expanding.

Jon Speer: Of course, we love our customers and want to help them be successful. And we love this industry too, and we want others in the industry to be successful. Of course, I would love for you to be a Greenlight Guru customer, but even if that's not your path or something that's in the cards for you, we still have something to give to you. We still have something of value. And I think this academy, I'm so excited about it because it extends that value, that reach that we can provide to others, that maybe they read an article or maybe they've heard of Greenlight Guru, but now they have this awesome opportunity to go through training, to learn a little bit deeper elements about various topics, many of which we've covered. So Aaron, I know this is a trick question, but that's okay. You'll crush it. How much does it cost for somebody to go through courses in the Greenlight Guru Academy?

Aaron Lucas: It does not cost anything, Jon, to sign up for Greenlight Guru Academy. It's one of the more important aspects of this as that there's always going to be something on the academy that you can learn without investing any money with us. Like Jon said, we understand that's not everyone's path. There will be opportunities to hit the next level of your medical device career or knowledge, and maybe invest a little bit in that in the future. We are working on those types of things. But right now, academy. greenlight.guru is a free service that you can sign up for. And that really is one of our major goals is to always be able to serve that part of the community.

Jon Speer: Yeah. So, academy. greenlight.guru.

Aaron Lucas: That's right.

Jon Speer: Go there, folks, sign up. It doesn't cost you a thing to do that, just a little bit of your time. And here's some of the cool things. So there's going to be plenty of courses for you to consume that are going to cost you$ 0. They're going to be your investment of time. To me, it's a way for a medical device professional to level up. Maybe they're happy in their career, in their employer, but now you get to sharpen your skills a little bit, or maybe you're looking to improve and learn something a little bit more on a particular topic that maybe you didn't know that much about, or maybe you're looking for a new opportunity. Well, these are all ways to help sharpen your skillset and deepen your knowledge base on particular things. Now, the value to the customer is awesome. Jessica has already hinted to that. So if you're a customer, you get all these free courses and you get this material that are going to teach you how to be more effective in using the platform. And we're also going to offer some super premium courses as well. Honestly, there's going to be a fee for some of these courses, but they're super premium. We've been partnering with quite a few folks on building some of this wonderful content. It's still very, very affordable for you to consume a very in- depth course on design controls or risks or 62304, et cetera, et cetera. So lots of options, you can kind of choose your own adventure, so to speak. So wrapping things up today on this episode, final thoughts, Jessica, fire away.

Jessica Lyons: I'm just glad that we've made it a lot less intimidating to go through and learn. It was one thing to sit through an entire webinar. I mean, because obviously we've been doing webinars and podcasts and articles and eBooks and things like that for years, but that's a long time to spend an hour, some days sitting through and watching all of this. And now you get the opportunity to bite- size the content and watch it at your own pace and to remember where you left off. So if you only get maybe 10 minutes here and there every day to learn something, it's a lot easier for you to go in and do that. So I'm really excited to offer a new way to learn.

Jon Speer: Cool. Aaron, your final thoughts.

Aaron Lucas: Yeah. I'm echoing what Jessica said and to kind of continue that train of thought. I mean, this is something that is going to be a big impact on the industry. I think it's a way for people to envision kind of the next step of their medical device career, like Jon said earlier, but also then to actually be able to take action on that is one of our goals. I keep candidly talking about us being like the Netflix of the medical device industry. We're going to be a place where all this content lives and you can browse through it whenever you're ready, like Jessica said, to really take either a deep dive or a short snippet, and it'll be there for you to return to when you're ready. So we just want to make sure that all this content, all this great knowledge gets out to the community. So really excited to continue that journey and to have been able to get it started.

Jon Speer: Awesome. Well, Jessica, Aaron, thank you so much. And folks, I would encourage you and remind you to go to academy.greenlight.guru, sign up, see what's there, consume the things that are of interest to you. If there's topics that you think that we should be incorporating and including in the academy, we want to know about that too. And there's a way for you to provide that feedback. You can also send us an email directly at academy@greenlight.guru. That'll get to us. And we'll evaluate your suggestion. We'd love to hear that feedback because we want this to be a tool. We want this to be an asset and a resource, and to help you improve your quality of life and get some knowledge on some topics that are going to help you be more effective because at the end of the day, you are working on some sort of technology that's going to save a life or improve a life in some way, shape or form. So we want to help you get the knowledge and skills that you need to do that. Again, Aaron Lucas, Training and Education Manager, Jessica Lyons, I forgot your title, but-

Jessica Lyons: Call me whatever you want.

Jon Speer: Senior Medical Device Guru. I need to write this stuff down.

Jessica Lyons: Not at all. Obviously, it doesn't matter at this time.

Jon Speer: Customer trainer, advocate, learner. Folks, academy.greenlight.guru, you can tell we're excited about it. I want you to be excited about it too. As always, this is your host and founder at Greenlight Guru. And thank you for watching and listening to The Global Medical Device Podcast. If you haven't done so already, be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel and click the little bell so you get notified when new episodes of The Global Medical Device Podcast, as well as any other content that we're rolling out is available. So enjoy that. Until next time, this is Jon Speer, Aaron Lucas, and Jessica Lyons. Talk to you soon.


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