Dr. Jenny Hoffmann, MedTech executive and author of Open Up: Step Into the Leader You Are Meant to Be, joins host Etienne Nichols to discuss the evolution of leadership in the medical device industry. Drawing from her experience as a bioengineer and CEO, Dr. Hoffmann explains why the traditional model of the "rigid, perfect leader" is no longer sustainable. She shares her personal journey—from being one of the first IVF babies in the U.S. to navigating life-threatening health complications—and how these experiences shaped her mission to help others lead with authenticity.
The conversation centers on the concept of "SOS moments," which Dr. Hoffmann defines as those critical points of distress or crisis that occur in both personal lives and product development. By applying her CEC framework—Curiosity, Empathy, and Connection—leaders can transform these high-pressure moments into stories of strength. This approach is particularly vital in MedTech, where the ultimate goal is to serve patients during their own most vulnerable SOS moments.
Etienne and Jenny also explore the intersection of human leadership and emerging technology. While AI continues to streamline technical workflows, Dr. Hoffmann argues that human empathy and curiosity remain irreplaceable assets for innovation. The episode concludes with a practical look at the return on investment (ROI) for "opening up," demonstrating how personal connection leads to higher quality products, better team retention, and the resilience needed to survive the "messy middle" of product development.
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In a medical context, an SOS is a distress signal indicating an immediate need for help. In leadership, Dr. Hoffmann uses "SOS moments" as an acronym for "Story of Strength" and an analogy for those times when you feel overwhelmed, fearful, or hit a major roadblock in a project (like a failed regulatory submission or a budget crisis), it can also be a moment to look back on and learn from.
Just as a clinician responds to a patient’s distress signal by diagnosing the underlying issue, a MedTech leader should respond to their own "emotional SOS" by using the CEC Method.
"The leader is the first one to step out on the bridge that no one’s sure if they want to cross. You paint that vision of the bridge, and then you’re the first one to step out on it." - Dr. Hoffman, NEMIC
"If we can put empathy first and think about how we are each a patient first... then we can uncover the real needs to solve. Then we can be more innovative." - Dr. Hoffman, NEMIC
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This episode is brought to you by Greenlight Guru. In the medical device industry, the "messy middle" of development is often where teams lose momentum. Greenlight Guru helps you stay focused on your mission by providing the only dedicated MedTech Lifestyle Excellence platform. Their QMS (Quality Management System) ensures your documentation is always audit-ready, while their EDC (Electronic Data Capture) solution streamlines clinical data management. By integrating quality and clinical data, Greenlight Guru allows leaders to spend less time on paperwork and more time on the vulnerable, innovative leadership discussed in today's episode.
Etienne Nichols: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Global Medical Device Podcast. My name is Etienne Nichols. I'm the host for today's episode.
And with me today to talk about her book, open up, step into the leader you are meant to be is Jenny Hoffmann.
Doctor Jenny Hoffmann is the author of this book that we're talking about. She's also a med tech executive known for building strategy that actually works.
She's the executive director at the New England Medical Innovation Center, NEMIC, where she helps innovators turn ideas into real world health care impacts through education, funding, connection, and expert support. Jenny's also the CEO and founder of Sure Footing Consulting.
That's actually how I met her in I don't even want to say where we met because it seems like it all gets it's disjointed. Around the world, I meet different places and think I met them there.
But, anyway, last time we met, we were in Boston. It was a great, great to see you there, and I'm excited to get to talk to you about this book and the things that you're doing, Jenny.
How are you doing today?
Jenny Hoffmann: I'm doing great. I have been looking forward to talking with you and so excited for this discussion.
Etienne Nichols: Awesome. Well, let's go ahead and jump into it.
So maybe before we get into the actual content, I am curious because every time I see a book and someone wrote, I have tried different times to write a book, and I know how difficult it is and how focused you need to be. What prompted and motivated you to write a book, and how were you able to go all the way?
Jenny Hoffmann: What prompted me to write it was a feeling that my story, my words, could help others. That they could make a difference if I was vulnerable enough to share my stories and my experience that I could make a difference in helping others fulfill their purpose, their mission in life, and have an impact.
And when it took it took about two years to write the book. The first was really early Saturday mornings when I would wake up before my family was up, and I'd start writing down stories.
I also was coaching a lot of people, and so I couldn't scale my time to meet all the demand. And so I would take whatever was the most common question over that week and write a story about it.
And that's how it really started. And then the second year when it was hard about, like, am I really gonna finish this book? Is this ever gonna be printed to where you could hold it up and show people? For me, that was really, I got some support from people who had done this before and that really catalyzed the book coming together.
And it actually, this is true of med tech leadership as well. When you have those hard moments, you go back to what is the purpose and impact you wanna have.
So, to go back and imagine those people reading it and contacting me, which I really appreciate now when people reach out and say, your words made a difference to me. And I wrote down notes from the questions at the end of each chapter, and I wanna spend some more time doing it.
So that that's fundamentally why the impact.
Etienne Nichols: That's awesome. I can totally see that.
You know, I think maybe the mistake sometimes we make in the things that we're doing is I'm trying to do this for me. This is something I just want to do.
And maybe some people are motivated that way, but I think more of us are motivated by, if this will help somebody or if they need this, then I don't have any choice but to do this. And that sounds like maybe that was the case.
Jenny Hoffmann: Your phrase of word thereof I don't have any choice but to do that, that's very much what it felt like. It very much felt like it was a story that came out, a book that came out, and I couldn't stop it from coming out.
So, it very much felt like I had to share this.
Etienne Nichols: A lot of the stories in the beginning well, they're obviously your stories, and some of them are very personal. I love and I won't get into any specific ones.
If they're ones that you wanna share or go deeper in. I feel like every time someone writes a book; there's probably things that didn't make it into the book that you would have loved to have in there.
And if there are things like that, I'd love to hear that as well. But you talk about leadership and stepping into the leader you're meant to be, and you talk about how you led in a certain way and your leadership has evolved over the years.
I wonder, was there a moment when you realized that the way you were leading wasn't sustainable and something had to change? Anything stand out?
Jenny Hoffmann: When I first started leading, I very much grew up in a time was taught that especially as a female leader in a technical area that is often more male leader driven, that I needed to show up perfectly composed with all the answers, and that meant not telling too much about myself. That meant showing up in this it almost came across rigid.
And there was a time that I was looking to take on another job that would be more responsibility, and I didn't get it. And I asked for feedback in that moment, and I had a wonderful person who worked with me and said, you're doing many things right.
The only thing we need you to do is be more vulnerable. And in essence, I've translated that to this idea of open up.
And it took me you'll see that this is really a journey that you go through. You know, we talked about you write a book for others.
But as an author, I went on this journey writing it as well, and I hope that the readers go on a journey of finding themselves through this, which is why it's about stepping to the leader you're meant to be because I believe that you have this inside of you already. So, it's really unlocking the potential that you already have.
And that was similar to this feedback that I got in that time of, like, open up, be vulnerable, share more about you. And it took me thinking about, well, why wasn't I sharing more about myself? And that takes some deep introspection.
I think that as a leader, it actually starts with knowing yourself better so that you can lead more effectively. And you'll see that's the first section of the book fundamentally.
It's about knowing yourself better, going all the way back to fundamental times in your life. For me, that actually started with the fact that I'm one of the first in vitro fertilization babies in The United States.
That's why I went into med tech innovation because I also wanted to pay it forward. I wanted to make a difference just like people made it possible for me to be here.
And I realized though that because I was so new, I was on the cutting edge, not everybody supported IVF at the time, and I was told to keep anything unique about myself, even, like, the fact that I was an IVF baby, quiet. Don't share that.
And I internalized that message, and it took decades for me to realize that there was a different way to lead.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah. It is crazy how sometimes the the thing that makes us different we wanna hide is actually the thing that can make you the leader you're meant to be, for example.
I think that's. really impressive.
Jenny Hoffmann: And while I have this story about being one of the first IVF babies, every single person listening has something unique about himself or herself that makes you unique as a leader and that you can connect to with others, and you only need to find it.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah. Yeah
Or remember it as may be the case in some cases.
I think it's so funny how our parents seem to know, well, I know you were meant to do that. Why didn't you say something? Page 20.
I and I don't wanna just give away too much from the book necessarily, but there's a line, and I don't expect you to remember this exactly. But you say, in my own life, a whisper has been an inner voice I heard when I suddenly woke up one night at 2AM, and it has also shown up as a feeling that grows until I can't ignore it any longer.
That was one of the things I underlined. And prior to that, you say something about requiring to that whisper can re require courage.
I think I think it might be Socrates. This is gonna get me in trouble actually trying to quote this.
But he said, everybody has that still small voice that they have in their head. The only difference between me and everybody else is I actually listen to it every time, and it got him in trouble.
But I'm curious if you can talk a little bit about that because I think you're right. Probably most of us have a little bit of that.
At least that's an assumption I make. What's the difference, or how do you actually follow that?
Jenny Hoffmann: The difference is very like, great quote. It's responding to that voice and choosing how to respond to that voice.
And so, I got this feedback and had this thought of, I think there's a different way to lead, but I don't know what that would look like, so start exploring it. And these can be small steps to start.
This can start with what I started. Just tell one story on Monday morning about what you did over the weekend that you wouldn't typically share.
That's something small. That's something you can do.
If you're already doing that, share something about yourself from the way you grew up and how that shaped your beliefs and values and how you lead. Oftentimes for us in med tech, this goes back to why we got into med tech.
We typically have some sort of motivation around the mission to have an impact on people that often comes back to some health experience we or somebody in our family had. So, start by sharing something personal that's small and see how everyone responds.
Etienne Nichols: So, this might not be the right flow to go directly into the next question that I wanna ask. Let's look at it as like braiding, going back and forth, and we'll kind of braid this together, hopefully.
But if I were a med tech CEO and I'm thinking, I need to be worried about budget. I've got five ten submission deadlines.
I've got all of these things. What are you talking about following trying to share a personal story? What's the point of this? And can you give some kind of illustration or example of here's a leader who does this, here's a leader who doesn't, and here's the gap between them? What's the actual ROI on something like this? Not to be so hard-nosed economical, but you see what I'm getting at?
Jenny Hoffmann: Yes. So, first, I wanna say a little preview that for those breeding, your analogy comes in really well.
If you get to the end of the book, the very last page connects to breeding. So, everybody can read it and figure out what that means.
In terms of so I won't use specific names in terms of leaders for one way or the other, but you can imagine somebody who the reason you spend time opening up telling these personal stories, making that more personal connection is if you take the time to lead in that way, you will get more out of the team of people that you work with. So, in the long run, you will go further.
That ROI then looks like higher quality products because people are motivated to take the extra time and make sure that there aren't regulatory and compliance issues. That means that people will be more motivated to when the time gets tough.
You know, this was typically you're in the middle of a long-term product development project or you're in the middle of a launch or something hard like that. And it's always that messy middle where you wanna give up, and you say, maybe we shouldn't do this product anymore.
And in that moment, if you have that personal connection, you can call on that and motivate people to keep going. You can also, in terms of ROI, you actually can shoot for higher returns because of that inward motivation.
You know, people often told me about, like, well, there's only time and effort that you can play with. There's another dimension.
That other dimension is back to that mission and that motivation. Don't forget that final dimension.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah. When you're talking there, you made me think of a story.
When I was a project manager in manufacturing, we had had some big deadlines coming up. So, they told us, we're gonna have to come in on Saturday.
You're gonna have to tell your team we have we have to do some Saturdays. I'm like, oh.
Jenny Hoffmann: Yeah.
Etienne Nichols: Man. So, I told them, and I made sure that I got there.
They were all gonna get there at 8AM. I got there at 6AM, and I started making I brought my espresso machine from home.
And I made everybody an espresso, and I went around, served everybody coffee all day long. And we had a lot of fun working that Saturday, and it made such a difference in how we worked.
Because, I mean, working Saturdays is not everybody's favorite thing. It shouldn't be.
So, but yeah. I think really showing that personal side and being willing to work right alongside each other, it makes a huge difference.
I can totally see that.
Jenny Hoffmann: I wanna call out what you just said as the leader. You were working alongside everyone on Saturday.
You weren't just like, oh, you've gotta show up on Saturday. Good luck, everybody.
Tell me how it goes as well. I know I remember earlier in my career, there was a time where we had to get through some regulatory compliance, and it felt it wasn't the most motivating work.
It wasn't the most exciting, but it had to be done. And our leader who had many, many, many things to do, many pulls on his time, sat down and was like, I'm here going through this paperwork with you.
And I haven't done it in years, but I'm here sitting with you. That makes a huge difference.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah
Jenny Hoffmann: I still remember it.
Etienne Nichols: That's yeah. That I agree.
I think that's awesome. It's so much easier to respect someone who's not going to ask you to do something that they wouldn't do themselves.
So. if one of the things you bring up a lot in the book is emotion.
And trying to think how to word this exactly because we talk about the difference in leaders, men and women leaders, and so on. And emotion I actually I don't know.
I have a lot of pages dog eared. One of the things you mentioned that I thought was interesting, you said men don't seem to be allowed to show emotion at work except maybe anger.
Women are expected to show emotion except maybe anger. And I thought I've never seen it delineated exactly that way.
I don't know that I disagree with that. But it made me think you talk a lot about this emotion.
What are the benefits and detractors of showing an emotion? I actually wish I had it in front of me because one of the things you said was without it being indiscriminate openness? Indiscriminate openness versus vulnerability? Can you kind of show us where that line is?
Jenny Hoffmann: Okay. There are many questions that you asked there that we could discuss.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah.
Jenny Hoffmann: So, one of my fundamental messages throughout this is how do you turn your SOS moments into a story of strength? And so, you'll read one of the differences that this is a leadership book is that I use my personal and professional stories to highlight this because I'm opening up and sharing it so you can learn from me, relate to me, that type of thing.
Learn we learn together basically in this book. And one of the things I say is that I am fundamentally an emotional person.
I actually believe all of us are, even if we have societal pressures. And I use a story, so I'll highlight one of these stories that you'll find in the book, which is at one point I received feedback.
And the feedback was that I should be more like a man and in an interaction with a physician. We all know we're interacting with physicians, and there are some, you know, especially when you're working with certain specialties, there's opinions on how you should interact with them.
So, you can imagine then where I'm working here. And when I tried to ask why or what was the objective, because I have this fundamental belief, that quiet voice, that whisper was that I felt like I could get to a similar outcome and lead in a different way or interact with physicians in a different way.
And so, I got emotional because it felt like a personal judgment and maybe lack of openness in seeing how a different way of interacting with physicians could get to the same outcome. And I went to my mentor at the time and I started crying.
And I even share in the book, like when I cry, it's an ugly cry. Like, it's not pretty.
He was amazing in that time because he made it okay. He was like, in my house, we all cry, and I want you to know I have tissues here on the table where we're sitting on purpose.
So don't worry at all about expressing your emotion in this moment. The only thing I want you to know is I realize how much it takes out of you to be crying, and I know you have to go to other meetings and stuff today, but know that you can cry.
And I relate that to this idea of turning your SOS into a story of strength because an SOS moment is fundamentally these times of crises, difficulty where you're overwhelmed, and SOS fundamentally is a distress signal. So actually, all you have to do is listen to your body's distress signal, which often comes out as an emotion.
And this is incredibly important for us in med tech because think about every single patient that we are trying to benefit. Every single one of them is having an SOS moment, which is why they are potentially getting a procedure, a device, something like that, a surgery.
So, if we can put empathy first and think about I like to say we are each a patient. We are each a patient first.
I might not be needing a surgery right now or seeing a physician right now, but at some point in my life, I will be, and I have been, and our loved ones will as well. And that's why we do this in med tech.
If we put that first, then we can uncover the real needs to solve. Then we can be more innovative.
Then we can work through those hard parts of it. That's fundamentally the motivation.
Etienne Nichols: I really appreciate how you talk about kind of observing your body's reaction to this SOS moment because that is kind of what it is, and it takes that curiosity about it. If you're afraid of the emotions, trying to stifle the emotions, you may not get the message.
I used this example with some of my team early on when I was training them, dealing with customers and so on was I wrote this paper about what's the opposite of love. Do you think it's not hate.
We think it's hate. It's actually indifference, in my opinion.
What's the opposite of fear? Actually, the I think the opposite of fear is curiosity because you forget about what you're afraid of when you're really curious, And I think that's one of the things that can help in those moments.
Jenny Hoffmann: You hit on that so well. So typically, I say is to turn your SOS moments into a story of strength, you the framework is curiosity, empathy, connection, or the CEC method.
And you've got it exactly in those moments when you're fearful because let's be honest, I have those moments regularly even if I seem like I have it all put together. The curiosity and overcoming that fear to me opens your mind.
So, if you can be curious, look at it as a question. Why did I react that way? What did I learn from that experience and moment? How can I take that forward with me? Now my mind's open.
Then that leads to empathy. Just like we were just talking about with if we're each a patient or what must that SOS experience be like.
That empathy opens our heart. And then it's about connection, putting those two together.
That's where you get that outsized ROI. That's where you get the motivation to continue forward and to do something that fundamentally the team might not have thought possible.
Etienne Nichols: That's actually interesting because AI seems to be something that always comes up, and here I am being one of the guys who brings it up. But I think it's it is becoming a part of our workflow and part of our everyday lives for a lot of people's.
But the thing that it's not going to be able to replace is the ability to empathize and to have that human connection or the emotional side of things. And I think that if we aren't able to get ahold of our own emotions and our emotional side not to get too far down that road, I don't guess but what you do could potentially be replaced by a machine.
If you think if you act like a machine, then why would a machine not be able to replace what you do? Would you agree, or what's your reaction?
Jenny Hoffmann: I love using AI. So, first of all, in the camp, I fall into using AI regularly every day, and I love the potential because there are things that I can get done faster and more effectively.
And I agree. So, this is instead of, like, either or, I'm in the both and thinking here.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah.
Jenny Hoffmann: And, which is part of curiosity, and I believe that you are exactly right. That the human peace, the human curiosity, that connection, that empathy cannot be replaced by AI.
AI can help us with it. It can help us ask questions.
It can help us phrase things more effectively. I use it for that type of thing, But it can't replace us.
And that's always gonna be needed, especially in med tech. Because again, we fundamentally do things at people's most vulnerable time in their lives.
Because if you don't have your health, it's really hard to have other aspects of your life. Really, you then start focusing on your health and how to improve it.
And so, we have to remember that we're interacting with people at their most vulnerable times.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah. One guy said, if I can remember the quote right, he said, a healthy man has many worries and cares.
A sick man has one. And I think that's often true. And I yeah.
The AI thing is so true. I yesterday, just as a joke to myself, I built a GPT that actually had an API into FDA's open FDA database.
It's so easy to do, but it was supposed to be a joke because of the wellness claims and say, okay, you want to change your claims to a wellness? We'll do this. We'll scrape FDA's web.
But anyway, it's silly. Silly of me to have spent any time doing that, but I there's so much potential there.
And if you're not using it, like I said, I do think, yeah, yeah. But we're but getting back to the book.
So.
Jenny Hoffmann: I love that you say, by the way, that you just built this yesterday. Nothing about it, but you just built this whole thing yesterday.
So that's pretty cool. I'm sure you learned something from it.
Etienne Nichols: I am intensely curious. In fact, my mom told me, she's like, when you were young, you know, I actually thought you were always trying to get in trouble, but I realized you were never trying to get in trouble.
You just never stopped pushing the button through curiosity. And, so, anyway, that's it's definitely something I pursue a lot.
The book, if it had one core message that you wanted med tech leaders to internalize or get out of this book, what would that be? What and if you know, having the book been out for a little while now, do you think there's anything that people misunderstand about it?
Jenny Hoffmann: For me, this fundamental message is about opening up, so sharing more about yourself. Be vulnerable enough to share information about yourself so that you can lead with curiosity, empathy, and connection, and that will lead to the outsized results.
Is there anything misunderstood? You know, the only thing I'd say is because it's different and that I share my own personal and professional stories, sometimes people like, oh, is it a biography? Are you trying to, you know, have everybody know about you? That's not my intention. It is more about how to help others by sharing relevant stories that I've experienced at that time so that I can show them I'm going first.
That's a lot about being a leader is I'm going first. I'm the one being vulnerable enough.
Learn from my story when it's too hard, too emotionally connected to learn from your own experience. Learn from me first.
And so, I think that's what I want people to know about it. You were asking some about what's the difference between when it's when it's useful to open up and when it's too much.
And I think that's it. It's about I'm not telling my whole life story.
There are stories you also asked this as well. There are stories I didn't share.
Most of those involve things that I wish I could share but really can't tell more about that happened to do with, you know, regulatory experiences, compliance experiences where teams really had to come together and work through things. All turned out well, by the way.
But, you know, there's some really harrowing stories that you could get into, again, patients' lives first. But the difference is really, I don't tell all these stories just so you know me.
That's oversharing. You don't need to know everything.
It's about knowing when is the right time to share a story so that people can learn from it That and so that you're leading first.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah. I think that's a good way to put it.
And I like that you said that leading first because that's really what you're doing. You're leading by example.
You feel like there are certain stories that you likely have, and they will help you as a leader. I'm doing this.
I feel like this is helping me and teaching you how to do this. I think that's a good point.
You really are kind of leading by example there.
Jenny Hoffmann: I once heard the analogy of the leader is the first one to step out on the bridge that no one's sure if they wanna cross. And you see that vision.
You paint that vision of the bridge, and then you're the first one to step out on it.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah. I like that.
In MedTech, are there any can you give an example? Because I am curious about that. And by the way, really good job remembering you asked this, this, and this, and I'm trying I'm working.
I'm making it a one question situation. But what are the times when sharing might be oversharing, or can you give an example of that happening?
Jenny Hoffmann: Oh, I can. You'll see in chapter three that I share my own SOS moment, which was when I had my first daughter and I had life threatening complications.
And I learned how to share that so that it wasn't oversharing. And that was because I would meet somebody and be like, let me tell you about this experience so that you understand why I'm in med tech or why I'm pushing this forward or something like and that was just too much too soon.
They didn't know me. So, I learned and I love how you're laughing about this because, of course, that comes across as too much.
But I had to experiment with it, and I do think there's real value in looking at the way we lead, the way we look at businesses as an experiment. We know the data shows if you do that, you actually get better returns, again, better ROI because you're not as connected to a particular outcome.
You're very much looking at, like, okay. I tried that.
How did it work? So, in that moment, I realized I over shared. That didn't work so well, and I could make small adjustments.
That didn't mean throw out the story and never share it again. It meant give people more context, more ability.
So, I often will now ask, may I share a personal story with you? And I'll start with sharing instead of the full story that you see in the book, I'll start to share something like, I have life threatening complications and that changed the way I lead and interact in this world. Would you like me to tell you more about my experience? And so, I'm inviting the other person in to hear a little bit more or they can say no and maybe that's enough in that situation.
But that's where I fundamentally learned what an overshare versus the right. way to share more information so that it resonates with the other individual or group.
Etienne Nichols: Hope that people listening, especially med tech leaders, know the value of a story. As engineers, I feel like we want the charts, the graphs, all of the data.
I don't need necessarily the touchy feely story part, but I think we forget that, especially in a day and age where information is at our fingertips. Literally, you can get just about anything you need to know from your phone.
And so, the stories are actually how people remember this or that. It anchors it in our minds.
And telling those stories, it is a skill. I tell a story every night, so I get to practice with my four kids.
They say, tell us the story, daddy. Every night, I have to tell them the story.
They know that it's I've started teaching them, why don't you tell me a story? And we talk about setup conflict resolution. And if there's a gun on the wall in act one, it has to be fired in act two.
Details are relevant. So, I think that we can learn to tell stories, but I hope that people recognize the importance that those stories are as they go throughout their professional careers.
Jenny Hoffmann: What a great point. As you know, I'm an engineer as well.
So, my PhD is in bioengineering.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah.
Jenny Hoffmann: And so, I am most influenced by the data, the numbers, the logic. And yet, I learned how critical storytelling is, which means the data numbers can come into that too.
But the storytelling is really back to that how we connect with others.
Etienne Nichols: There's a story that you actually speaking of stories, there's a story you tell where you actually were the person on the outside. You come into this group, and someone got up and presented. Oh, this is a million-dollar TAM, you know, total addressable market.
We have all this potential here, and there are a few people, analysts saying, and you could tell the story was not built necessarily on the data. I guess that's kind of I'm just kind of drawing that assumption, I suppose.
So, I say that to say we kind of have them divorced in our mind. Here's the data, and here's a story, when really the data is the foundation and all of the everything underneath, the story sits on top of that data.
And the data makes the story change, in my mind. What would you say or add to that?
Jenny Hoffmann: As an engineer influenced by data and then storytelling, absolutely, I agree. And just to highlight that story a little bit more.
So, this was a portfolio review, a review of all the commercial products in this business unit and a review of all the products in development. And I was brought in because I was doing portfolio review for the organization.
And I was brought in as I knew some, but I was not in the business unit. So somewhat of an independent observer or an independent perspective.
And the story, if you just listen to the story, it sounded like an amazing story for absolutely this product and development, you know, should that be the top priority? Why are we even talking about it? Of course, it makes sense. Huge market opportunity.
Of course, we can deliver on it. But if you pay attention, if you get curious in the room, I could tell that there was a table that people were sitting at, and then there were some people sitting in chairs along the wall because not everyone fit at the table.
And I looked at those sitting in the chairs along the wall, and you could physically see that they were not engaged. I mean, like, physical, if anyone could see, like, head down in into themselves, like, rolling in on themselves.
And I'm like, that what is going on? This is their project. Like, why that reaction? That's that curiosity.
Now the mind's open. And I like to bring in different people's perspectives.
So, in that moment, you know, I'm like, wait. You know, Steve, you on the wall.
It’s his name wasn't Steve. I don't remember.
But, you know, Steve, what is your thinking on this market opportunity? And you could hear that there were different opinions, and the data was not exactly clear. Like you said, is it a billion-dollar market opportunity, or is it a $100,000 opportunity? Like, that wasn't clear.
It was that kind of order of magnitude. difference.
And because I wasn't in the business unit, I didn't have a particular tie to the outcome. But for me, it was more about, well, then that sounds like a fundamental uncertainty that we need to go learn more about because that is a core assumption that is shaping how we approach this product in development.
And that had an influence on the future.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah. No.
That I think that's huge, that body language. I think the culture yeah.
I just got done reading the culture map. Don't know if you've ever read that.
But a friend of mine who is originally from Russia, now she works in France, she works in an office with there are 12 people at this med tech startup. And then she says there are nine different passports.
They all speak French. And when you speak French, everybody speaks very well.
You don't necessarily know where they're from, but they all have different assumptions. And being able to read body language and understand the hierarchy, the power dynamics is so powerful and so important.
And I wonder, are there I actually wanna there's another quote I want to reference from your book because in page 93, I have highlighted, early in my career, I didn't control my narrative, and I was perceived as being unable to handle ambiguity. Not necessarily the ambiguity itself, but that phrase.
I was unable or I didn't control my narrative. Are you as leaders, I don't know that they always get the open and honest feedback that they would probably like.
Maybe that's their for projecting whatever, you know, they want to be powerful and authoritative and or whatever it is, a leader, you know. Look up to me.
We've got this. So, people may not give them the feedback that they want.
How is it that you can know first of all, before you even control the narrative, how can you know what the narrative is that you're kind of projecting onto people? Any thoughts?
Jenny Hoffmann: Great question. It actually starts back to something that we already talked about, which is curiosity.
You have to be open to hearing what the narrative is about you. I know some leaders, they're the leaders, and so they're not necessarily interested in hearing what that narrative is about them.
So, the it starts with the willingness to hear what that narrative is.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah.
Jenny Hoffmann: And there's various ways that you can accomplish that. You know, certainly, we've all heard of three sixties or one of the hardest things as a leader is still keeping a pulse, especially as you continue to have broader scope of responsibility, to still keep a pulse on what is happening to the majority of those you lead.
And that I think is critical. Whether you do that by maintaining a few key relationships, and you have to do it with people who will tell you the truth, or whether you ask, you know, an HR partner or some other partner to help you come in and conduct, you know, understanding of what that experience is for those that you lead.
But it starts with being open and then actually asking for the feedback that narrative. And I think people are willing to say it if you create a safe space.
So. that's the other piece.
If you really are open to hearing what the narrative is about you, then you have to be able to create a safe space that people can share their opinions, their feelings, and the impact on them in a way that they don't feel like an adverse outcome will happen if they share that information.
Etienne Nichols: And it’s kind the comes down to trust, really. They trust that they.
Can give you this feedback, and you will accept it in a in a positive way. Can you give us a trust building practice that a leader could use? Maybe even this week, maybe today.
You know, what to say, when to say it, what you're hoping for. Any thoughts on a trust building practice?
Jenny Hoffmann: First, I wanna say you're exactly right that it's all about trust. Fundamentally, opening up is about building trust and building it quickly.
And so, you hit the nail on the head there. In terms of a practice, one of the things I had to learn, I like to move very quickly, and I assume then that people are with me as I talk to them and interact with them as a leader.
So, one of the trust building practices that I worked on was about creating more context. Because those that I'm interacting with might not have been around me all day and followed all the conversations that I was talking about, or they might not remember what the vision is that we talked about last week or last month or last year.
And so, trust building that I've tried to start doing is this is my intent. This is why it's my intent, and here's what I'd like to get out of talking with you today or something like that.
So, people know what to expect. They know how to show up.
And there that creates a more trusting environment for them to interact in.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah. That's good.
Yeah. I love the idea that that we could get there.
You know, I think some people think that maybe it's unattainable or however it is. But if you're the one building your team, you should be able to build that trust and be able to get to there to that point.
Jenny Hoffmann: Even if you're not building your team and you're stepping into somebody else's team that they built, you still have to build trust. I thought for a while in my career like, oh, well, if I could build my team from scratch, then it would be a different experience. But fundamentally, the reality is a lot of the times are stepping into a team that already exists.
And that trust building is equally important, if not more so in those situations.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah. Really good point.
Glad you brought that out. Do you think there is you coach people now.
And not only having been a CEO of a couple of different things and now working at NEMIC, I'm sure you get to work with a lot of different companies. Would you…is there one hard truth out there that you would want the listener to understand when it comes to leadership?
Jenny Hoffmann: When it comes to leadership, so first of all, I have the great privilege of working with amazing founders, innovators, you know, people wanting to make a difference in our med tech ecosystem. So, love that.
And one of the hard truths is that you have to be coachable. And we all think there's data on this, actually.
We all think we're coachable. But check whether you actually are coachable because that's actually one.
So, are you willing to take feedback, respond to it, and pivot as needed to respond to the data that's coming in? This doesn't mean take feedback carte blanche and don't, you know, just take everybody's word that they tell you. But to really listen to the experience and those experts around you, that's the leadership lesson.
The second thing I'd say that I often see in med tech especially is that there has long been a belief that if you build it, they will come. That is not necessarily true.
It's another fundamental learning that I see people go through.
Etienne Nichols: I'm making a note to myself because the thing that you said, coachability. At one point, I was helping.
I was one of the judges for MedTech Innovator, and that's what I heard.
Jenny Hoffmann: Yes.
Etienne Nichols: Oh, this great technology. This is awesome.
I don't think the CEO is coachable. You could tell.
And I'm I was just kind of amazed at some of the feedback that different judges were giving. So that coachability.
The reason I ask that is like, okay, willingness to take feedback. Maybe not carte blanche.
Okay, that's I think that's really good, but how do I know whether I am or not? And the reason I say this, most people a lot of people it's hard to find someone who's willing to give it to you straight. And I'll give you a quick example, though.
I worked as a project manager. I was a PMP for a product development company, a combination product company.
And when it came time for me to end that, there were lots of good things that happened. There were some difficulties.
It was all good. I look on that as a very positive experience.
I have great relationships with the people. I read Hal Elrod's book, “The Miracle Morning”, probably two weeks before I left that company to go to onto another company.
And at the very end of that book, he says, “I want you to write this email. He gave the format.”
He says, “I want you to ask feedback.” So, I sent that email, and I got 19 emails back from different people, different levels of the company, 19 very detailed emails, all I mean, mixture of good, bad, whatever.
And I read it, but I was like, I can't internalize this. And so I went to the next company, and I found someone who was sort of a coach mentor type person.
And we were having one specific problem, and I just couldn't seem to overcome it. I said, listen.
I have this feedback from my last job. Can I give that to you? And so, she read it, and she says, it all makes sense now, and here's what I think we need to do.
And that was so helpful. It was so helpful.
And I don't know if many people are able to do that. Any thoughts or how to actually get to where you recognize your blind spots?
Jenny Hoffmann: It's amazing that you did that, and you did what I often tell people to help process the information. You worked with somebody else.
And that is the value of that last stage in the method connection. Not only does it hold us accountable to work with somebody else, but they actually help us figure out what something means, how to interpret it, where to respond, where not to respond.
And we do that for others too. And when we do it for others, we're learning about ourselves as well.
So that connection piece, you can't forget. It's about working with others because I think it's too high of an expectation to expect that any one of us on our own can make sense of all of that feedback when it's about us.
So, yes.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah.
Jenny Hoffmann: You can start to process it, but really it takes working with others around you, whether that's a coach like you're saying you had, or whether it's a friend or a colleague who will help do that.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah. That's cool.
I love that, the connection piece that you have. And so, there's I have lots of different dog-eared parts.
I'm just gonna run through real quick, see if there's anything else that I want to highlight. But I know we're coming close.
There's one where we talk about or where you talk about the different emotions. And I just wanted to just kind of run through this, see if you have anything to add to it.
Because you talk about the different emotions and what they can tell us about ourselves. Awe, a w e, tells us there's tells us when there is something we don't yet understand.
Contentment tells us where we belong. Pride shows us where we have achieved something worthwhile.
Anger displays values or boundaries that have been threatened. I thought that was really good.
And fear alerts us to risk and helps us to survive. All of those things are indicators, and if we know what's happening in my external environment when I feel these emotions, I thought that was helpful.
But anything you'd add to that?
Jenny Hoffmann: The point in recognizing this is because I would get angry in situations. Maybe somebody didn't hear me.
I'd get angry about that. And if you can think, well, wait a second.
Anger, that's triggering a value that just got threatened or a boundary that just got threatened. It allows you to imagine popping up above yourself.
Takes a little bit of that emotion out so you can step away from being stuck in that anger and think about like, oh, well, what back to that curiosity.
Etienne Nichols: Curious.
Jenny Hoffmann: What potential boundary or value just got threatened? And then I'm actually defining my boundaries and whether I ever wanna edit them in the future. And so, the intent is if you can name it, then you can step out of it, and the emotion doesn't control you.
It actually helps you.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah. Yeah.
I think that's good. And I think it's cool that you're willing to even admit that maybe we want to edit some of those in the future.
That's good. Those strong convictions held loosely.
Jenny Hoffmann: Even when you go back to the narrative, you know, like I said, there was a time in my life when I wanted to change the narrative about me. I think changing that narrative, you have to be very thoughtful about what is your personal brand then.
What are the words you wanna use about it? I started changing all of those words. And it still takes six to twelve months for those around you to realize that you've updated your narrative as well and to think of you differently.
So, recognize there's a time component of that too. But, yes, I like to say we are all learning and growing every day.
I hope I'm learning for the rest of my life. And that includes then learning where I maybe wanna update my boundaries or my personal narrative, things like that too.
Etienne Nichols: Yeah. Well, I recommend those of you listening, check out the book.
Check out what Jenny doing. Any last things that you or any last piece of advice or wisdom that you'd like to share with the audience or call to action, what you'd like them to go do, something like that, anything like that that you'd like to share or ask of the audience?
Jenny Hoffmann: Call to action. I mean, pick up a copy of the book and spend time with the questions at the end.
And if you have any feedback you wanna share or things you wanna see, it's www.storyofstrength.com. And I'd love to hear from you on the impact it has.
Etienne Nichols: Awesome. Thank you, Jenny.
I look forward to when our paths cross again. Hopefully, won't be before too long.
But those who've been listening, you've been listening to the Global Medical Device Podcast. We'll put links in the show notes to the book, the website, and to how you can get ahold of Jenny if you wanna reach out directly.
But this has been fun. I've been looking forward to this conversation as well, Jenny, and I really appreciate you coming on the show today.
Jenny Hoffmann: I really enjoyed it. Love the questions and can't wait to hear about the impact.
Etienne Nichols: Awesome. All right, everybody.
Take care. We'll see you all next time.
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